Should Congress allow GM to file for bankruptcy?

that is e z to fix. dont buy their cars

Tom

You apparently don't know anything about business.  I am a small business person and I will bet you ten million dollars I don't get a bail out nor can I fly to washington on a private jet..   Get a life and some facts,  If a business isn't profitable and smart on it's own merits, it should not exist.   Thanks and hope you don't work for the big 3

Idiots like you are the ones needing the unions. If you had to stand on your own merits in a free market economy, you would not make it.

those against a bailout today will be begging for one tomorrow. this is the first domino.

To the person who suggested that the oil companies fund the bail out:

What a freaking fantastic idea that is!!!  However, that makes common sense.  It can not be allowed.

Note to any future fool who says it would not be fair to the oil company shareholders.....

Let them take it as a tax credit against Obama's upcoming windfall profit tax.  That way no net loss.

Tom, just by the high amount of ignorance and elitism that has nothing to do with this, you have discredited everything you said.  These guys do not deserve a bailout.  The nature of business is that if you can not deliver a better, cheaper product then your competition, then you go under.  However, when we give money to business, then we are effectively letting them get away with not being smart about the way they run their business.  I would like to remind everyone that in the 90s we gave quite a bit of cash to Chrysler because they were going to have to cut back due to poor business choices.  Now, here is Chrysler back again asking for more.  It seems to me that we have shown that companies do not have to be competitive, but merely just pull a "millions of jobs will be lost" card anytime they start to run low on funds.  Is that really the impression we want to give to business?  I frankly do not think it is.  I think we need to come down hard against this idea that we need to spend tax payers dollars, and instead let these companies go into bankruptcy, then they will actually rebuild their companies to stop being so resistant to change and start  actually responding to their customer wants.

After GM files for BK and protection to reorganize is the only way they can retool and re-fit to eliminate the burden of paying strangeling union consessions.  The Oil Companys can buy GM as a subsidy from the subsidy the federal government has already paid them from our tax dollars and the high profits they just received.  Exxon and Mobile alone could come up with the 25 billion both GM and Ford need to retool for the future automobiles of America.  Both GM and Ford have cars that get 65 miles to the gallon and Congress has refused for over 3 years to let them introduce the bio-fuel diesels into America.  Nissan, VW and Ford of Europe have the cars available today.  Honda and Toyota along with several other makers are just waiting for the OK to send in cars that run on gas and electric, the only thing holding them up is Congress who know that this would be the end to GM and Ford.  Chrysler is already done, bailing them out would make more sense to sell their plants to an emerging auto maker wishing to expand in America.  Yahoo and Chrysler have over played their hands!  Ford and GM are like the rubber barrons of the 40's  Electric is in/gasoline is out.  Batteries are making a come back and oil is becomming the rubber that can be replaced with natural gas or hydrogen.  We need all of our oil for trains, ships, industry just like coal will be needed for industry until we can build enough necular plants.  Once natural gas become the in product it by demand alone will quadropple in price just in the first year.  Hydroge in dangerous and wind and solar will be cost prohibited leaving necular as the industrial grid replacement to oil and coal.  One fossil fuel contaminate out and another possible contaminate waiting to replace it with equally potential of a new impending diaster looming in our future.

I hope that congress allows them the right to survive without a bailout.  I was torn but after watching the hearings for the last 2 days, I've decided.  The arrogance and lack of leadership by example from the CEOs is infuriating.  The UAW doesn't want to make temporary or permanent concessions to reduce expenditures simply to insure future employment.  We can't help an entity that doesn't try to help itself. 

Why not allow the Oil companies to lend or invest in these companies rather than writing them a check?

Who cares if people buy American cars?  People should buy cars based on quality, efficiency, etc., and if that's not an American car then maybe they should improve!

It's easy to laugh in the faces of three fatcats sitting in front of a congressional committee, but a couple million workers are going to lose their pensions and health care benefits, not to mention their livelihoods.  Workers have lost a lot of their security in the last decade and a lot of Joe the Plumber types are rooting for the other team.  American car companies have gone out of business in the past, but never all of them at once. I'm not sure where I stand on this issue, but we need to think it through.  I guess we'll still have cars built in America, they just won't have an American signature on them.

When I was in high school, I thought a person could really be somebody driving a 1963 autumn gold chevy impala.  Now I wouldn't recognize an Impala, unless I read the nameplate on the back.  When did American cars quit being distinctive? Why do Japanese designers seem to know just where I'm going to want a cupholder in my car? 

It wasn't just the three fatcats sitting there having individually flown in on their multi-million private jets.  It was the Union guy sitting there claiming the workers certainly couldn't sacrifice anything... 

Unions really did have their place once upon a time.  But now they have lost all reason.  I simply don't believe a person standing on an assembly line putting screws in a hole deserve to make $74/hr even if it is with benefits.  Over $150,000/yr?  As a small business owner I wish I could come close to paying even my very best, top level people that salary. 

It's true the fatcats make way too much money and should never receive a bonus when they're losing money.  That's insane.  Pay the guy a bonus for running a losing business.  But the fatcat union member is overpaid too.  Just not quite so excessively.  But still overpaid.  If they want this industry to survive all of them need to get back to reality. 

to :  you should seriously think about leaving this country you find so distasteful.

The real reason they are in the red, if they really are, is because no one is buying their cars.  People want fuel efficiency.  GM ditched their electric car program.  Ford is scrapping the Escape which was their only hybrid.  Chrysler does not have ANY hybrid or electric.  All of these companies are STILL flaunting their fuel inefficiencies.  GM is touting the Saturn line's combined 32mpg cars.  32?  Is that all you got?  When you get something on the road that can guzzle less than my 50 mpg Prius, let me know.  I just may buy it. 

People are buying smaller cars.  If they aren't they don't need to watch their fuel consumption.  The rest of us don't have that much money.  Just because it is $1.85 right now doesn't mean next summer it will remain where it is now.  Prepare, people!

When I talk about those companies, I mean in the U.S. and not what they have in Europe, etc.

This is just a thought I read on another post (thanks Eric in Salinas), but if true it may be something to think about.  If we let the big 3 fail.....who will build our massive military vehicles in the unfortunate, but possible event that we go to another war? Are the big 3 the only companies that build military vehicles?  Or just a large part of it?  I'm pretty sure Toyota and Honda wouldn't help us out (or maybe they would??).  I think Ford was the one he said build alot of vehicles during WWII.  I don't know much about this, but if it is true that they supplied/supply the majority, I would think we would be obligated to help them out at least for our own security issues, if nothing else.  Does anyone know anything about this?

There are alot of jobs on the line, and I am for the bailout, if there is a good business plan and NO MORE PRIVATE JETS!  These execs are getting out of hand!

don't be so quick to blame the exec, since many of them take the biggest risk and handle all of the headaches when it comes to running a business. The fact of the matter is that the UAW has ruin these companies. Paying a laborer ridiculous amounts of money for building cars that are not even competitive to the rest of the market is crazy. Why do you think that the UAW won't give the US senate a date by which their pay would be competitive with the likes of BMW, Toyota, and the like. They are stalling so that they won't have to make any changes.

It is not just mileage, it is not about "saving the economy". Fact is they are not competitive. I have never owned a foreign car, I only buy American, however mileage, style, durability and initial cost as well as lifetime cost are the issues when it comes to producing a viable product. A three year old American made car can not even get close to Kelly Blue Booktrade in value at the same dealership that sold it in the first place. Get Americans to buy that.

As far as the economy, unless we want a socialized system, the industry needs to heal itself and become competitive.

I just finished reading one of my current car magazines and found something interesting. BMW is producing a new 335D coupe. What is so special about this car? It is diesel . . . I mean clean diesel that passes California's EPA laws. Even more impressive is that the car has 425 ft/lbs of torque . . . out of a straight six! This car flies. But the most impressive part of this car is that it gets (wait for it) . . . . 36mpg on the highway.

This is why the American car companies are failing. Foreign car makers are finding ways to get power and mileage out of their vehicles. . .  the best of both worlds. I know that this car is priced more than most Americans can afford, but the technology is out there. Why can't the American car companies get off their lazy butts and develop the same, if not better, technology? Oh yeah, because it requires them to get their heads out of the '60's and '70's. Dinosaurs are extinct . . . and so are the Big 3.

Because you and yours have it hard, then everyone should?? You'd rather have that than all of us coming together and making things better for all??? It is a different way to look at the world than I do. I suspect some bitterness there. I'm sorry.

1. I don't understand what is going on with this government. When did the government became responsible for inefficient firms? Why is the government becoming the biggest investor in failing companies? The way that the market have worked is that companies look for capital funding in the markets where investors are looking for growing and efficient firms. This is the way the big three have obtained their capital before. Now because they are stale, inefficient, unprofitable, and contracting they look for the government for capital. That is a sign that there is no saving this companies. They are done... The only ones to blame for that are the same three executives that came to congress today. If any one thinks that those executive will improve, change, or save their companies, they are delusional. Those auto jobs are gone, if that is the purpose of the bail out. If they get the bail out money they will cut jobs and apply those funds the way they have done previously, which have not being efficient. What should happen is that these companies should re-organize and by themselves become efficient and profitable by cutting all the inefficiencies.

Does anyone really think the oil companies will lift a hand to help the auto makers? You're delusional. First off, the Obama administration will MANDATE better cars with 10X better fuel economy....so the oil companies will see this as a threat to their bottom line. No...the oil companies will wash their hands of this.

I do see this as a 2 edged sword...Bushwhacker and his scorched earth policy has really put the US in a hole that it may not be able to climb out of without losing some limbs....namely and arm and a leg. On the plus side, declaring bankruptcy will give the big 3 room to breath...they must restructure or they will not survive. They will need to rip out the current factories and install machines that will build 21st and 22nd century vehicles. 50+ MPG, hybrid, and alt fuel cars and trucks and not the gas guzzlers they've been producing with impunity for the past 50 yrs.....

Here's the big rub for me. Yes...it was a bad move for the big 3 execs to fly in on their pvt planes...."wearing tuxedos to the soup line".....Yes they could have plane pooled to DC.....but what really gets me....is Congress....Now they're so intent on putting strings on the 50Million (which by the way it should have been understood in the beginning that would be the case...the big 3 must play by the rules or perish)......but the biggest rub?....Congress gave the biggest most corrupt Paulson a blank check with no strings....he based his plea for the 700Billion on the housing market....now he did a 360....not one dime has gone to stopping the foreclosures....this man should be held in contempt of congress and immediately arrested. the money should be seized and not one more penny should be given out without strings.....meaningful strings.....not to go to some loophole to buy other banks, pay retirement for execs, or junkets/parties to the islands for fun and games....those who allowed that to happen should also be held in contempt of Congress and those companies who participated in such actions should have the money given to them seized and returned....screw them....

I would hate to see 3million more unemployed people in this country as the result of the automakers going under.....I'm fairly sure this is another scare tactic....nobody wants to fail...and bankruptcy IS a way out.....I say...let them claim it and restructure.....extend unemployment for those who lost jobs because of it....and most of all...do what it takes to make the automakers competitive...which means reducing the $ they must pay their workers as opposed to $ foreign workers make.....and Unions...bless your little hearts.....if you screw this up....you need to be blasted to smithereens.....either help or get the hell out of the way!

It's sad you say that but some people who have health coverage and benefits...retired, they Earned it through hard work. Maybe not all auto workers have worked as hard as they should have but me for one...worked hard every day I worked for GM and so did my husband. Alot of people have what they have because of their hard work for GM through the years they worked there. It isn't their fault that there's people who have no or very little health care or retirement benefits. I have listened to so many people through the years degrade the auto workers that it has made me feel disgusted to think these people could have had the same opportunity to maybe work for the auto company but some maybe too lazy to want to do the work to earn a desent living. It saddens me to think our government helped AIG and to those of you who aren't aware of this...they don't have to even pay the money back! Yet our government doesn't seem to think helping out the automakers is such a good idea. Well let's see what happens if they go under or into bankruptcy. It will for sure be what you call a "domino effect". So many people will lose their jobs and what is going to actually happen to our country? We will all see.

Your year of work are appreciated by many. Your position, with top pay for skilled workers, has made you a target for all who think that workers deserve the minimum, management deserves better and those who start and own their business deserve the most. The decision makers, those who have lent the money, have allowed this to get very skewed to those that manage. The perception is that your union has done you an extreme disservice by demanding your share of the profits. The companies would have paid that money out to shareholders and executive bonuses so I don't see the rub. The main problem is that they didn't properly fund your retirement and continued to pay big salaries and bonuses. Your voice, the UAW, did not recognize the future that was so clear to many of us, and demand that mileage be improved. The world has moved on and building cars with the slight improvement from last years model is not going to be rewarded anymore. We are in a crisis that should have been addressed in the 1960 when the Club of Rome report was issued. All involved ignored the future and maximized profits. I live on social security and you probably will have to also. I do not see how you could expect the other citizens of this country to back-up GM's promises to you. You definitely have a bone to pick with GM management, but you should have seen it coming. Good luck. 

Go back to school.

I work at a G.M plant and I see all the waste and all the lazy employee's that sleep on the clock,knowing that the union will get them off of any disipline that is needed.Personnally I think they need to get rid of the Union,then see what kind of money is saved.

Firstly, it is not okay to give banks billions in pay bonus.   Secondly, I find your statement that it is UnAmerican to not give a bailout actually a bit odd.  America was established on the principle of Free Markets and Competition, not socialistic principles of buying out private corporations when they start to fail.  If anything the bailouts are unAmerican. 

I'd like to bail out, but nobody is going to bail me out.  I'm losing my medical while I work at the "Happiest Place on Earth".  I take 3 drugs and it will cost me about $7,000/year for those, let alone my appointments.
Help me congress.  Help me!

Sean and other like minded, I agree with you on the free market concept. Let the big 3 fail. Of course, millions will be out of work especially in this global economy but who cares.

With record unemployment, no jobs in sight and increase homelessness...let the free market reigns. Government should reduce taxes all around...but wait, with record unemployment there is no money to pay taxes, but let the lazy bums die as far as the free market succeeds. But, how can the free market succeed when there is no money to buy their products or services????

The government has always played with capitalism. I don't need to give you examples because you should be able to look it up yourself. They keep defense contractors rolling, pay off bad goldman sac's investment in Mexican bonds, etc. etc. Chrysler must fail and some one run their profitable plants. But please don't ask me to believe that the government is not involved in big business. Just yesterday, the bailout of the 25 biggest banks somehow didn't include National CIty and their competition knew that the government would not bail them out and that if they used their bailout money to buy Naitonal City, then the government would allow the purchaser to receive bailout funds to the new owner National City. It didn't take long for the banking community to become ethically challenge once Bush got involved.    

i'm 67 retired auto worker is there anyone going to give a job to a man with to bad nees 4 disk held togeather with pins. i guess i can go on welfar and you can pay the hole bill then!

mfk.. since you said you were already retired... making all that money the UAW negotiated for you, you should have a pretty good nest egg to fall back on.  USE IT instead of stating you will be broke because of bad knees

Mark297617... he probably spent the money on products that you manufacture; if you work in the service economy, he paid your salary since the service economy produces nothing but service.

I think what I find most disturbing about mfk's comment is that it implies that he did not do any "outside" investing to insure his future viability. My question to him would be, "Why didn't you invest in stocks, bonds, etc.?" I am part of a union, and I am constantly encouraged to invest in all available options (401k, 403b, etc) and to make sure I am staying diversified. Did the UAW not advise him to do the same? If not, then shame on them . . . they are getting what they deserve.

Wouldn't it be neat if America had that trillion dollars back from the Iraq expense.  The cost of that war, and the now-appearing costs to the country are staggering...Imagine if W. had gone in and won in 2003, and left the next year?  How much Iraq is costing the American People now...Help Iraq, and turn on the Big Three?  Not cool...

No, I personally don't want to see anyone lose a job and yes we probably should try some kind of bailout for the big three.  However, because they couldn't or wouldn't make the right decisions, the CEOs and their cohorts should be replaced as a condition of the bailout.  We must not reward these theives by allowing them to keep their jobs!!!

Need to correct a statement regarding the repubs getting us into this mess.  Know your history....Pres. Carter fist signed into law the Community Reinvestment Act and because that didn't do enough damage, Pres Clinton then signed the second Community Reinvestment Act.  That did it.  Brought the real estate, banking and economy to its knees.  Of course that's an oversimlification, but look it up and see how and why we are where we are. 

just a general response....there are good and points coming from each side....i never agreed that the banks and etc get bailout money much less without more scrutiny as to how it is spent...all these ceo's should have to work for little or nothing and surrender their bonuses....if all the ceos gave back their bonuses we would have the bailout money...no one helped me when i got inn a jam but hard work and perserverance got me on my feet again and now i am a little smarter but just like all those who get free money and housing and learn nothing, that's what we would have bailing out the big 3...the ceo of ford made over 9 mil last year and is not willing to give anything up...let them all go down.....they just want us to fund their vacations and fuel their private jets..as much as the workers make they should have some put back unless they learned from their company leadership and lived and spent unwisely....they can always get a job at toyota or honda, etc...the majority of the parts used on the big3's cars are made in other countries anyway and just assembled here....how many parts have you bought that said made in the U.S.A.??? problem is the majority of the people in this country want hand outs and now we just see it on a grander scale....

Where do you think the money for the Iraq war went to, a mason jar buried in the yard? It went to pay soldiers 4X to 6X the military salary to do the same job in Iraq. It paid for hundreds of thousands of employees of the military establishment. A lot of that money went directly to the American People, who paid ExxonMobil and other oil companies, who paid their thousands of employees.

The break in the chain is the Financial Sector, who made the money disappear and paid their employees with bad loans and mortgage backed securities(Thank You Bill Clinton).

Blame everything on Bill Clinton and nothing on George Bush. I guess you need to believe that so you can fall asleep at night.ets keep the partisan BS out of the dsicussion. If the big Three go under we loose 3 million jobs and God knows how low the stock market will go. It will be 1930 all over. Yes the big three have done a horrible job of developing cars that people want, but the risk of doing nothing is severe. The gov. can certainly put constructive demands on the money. And of note to an eariler writer Chrysler was bailed out in 1979 not the 90`s and the gov. made a profit on that one billion dollar loan. 

In less than 3 months my 401k dropped $25,000 and continues to bleed. Granted, it was not much in the first place, but this is ridiculous. The company just laid off 500 people, their stocks have dropped to 6.50 per share and so is their ratings. If this continues we might all not have a job between now and December, so its not so cut and dry to say let the free market reign. We are all interdependence on each other.

If the Big 3 receive a bailout and restructure their companies, a whole lot of people still lose jobs. It is not possible to maintain the same production levels when the item you create does not sell. That's how companies get into messes like this to begin with. So, if the Big 3 are bailed out, they will have to restructure the way that they manufacture cars and employ individuals.

People are losing their jobs no matter which way it is looked at. Why give a company, privately owned and for-profit, money for doing what a bankruptcy will require they do already?

First, I will assume that you are an employee of one of the "Big 3" that enjoy the BIG salary and benefit packages that you all enjoy due to the union organizations that are just about to cost you your job. There is not a skilled labor requirement in the industry that justifies the pay rate. The unions, as well as the corporate greed, are to blame for the financial condition of the industry. Oh, by the way, union greed is fueled by employee greed so let us not lay all the blame on CEOs. Maybe it would be enlightening to be forced to accept another job with the "Average Joe" salary and benefits and see how how most people live. If we are to bail out anyone, let us bail the homeless and hungry. Ask yourself one question......What would JESUS do?????

You say " lets bail out the poor and the homeless", if G M goes down the drain, there will be over 100,00 salaried retirees that will be poor and if they cannot pay their taxes on their paid off home, they will be homeless too.  I seem to feel that most of the comments about giving it to GM in the head are from people who are not 40 yet. Maybe you have never heard about things that happened in the factories before the Union was formed.  Men got fired if the foreman didnot like the way a man parted his hair and other reasons just as absurde.  The Union protected the workers from danger and bias of all kinds.  It was very much needed.  It has come from a good beginning to not so good endings.     I agree with all the people who say what they say about Paulson and the friends he bailed out with the first 700 billion.   But get it straight, you people talk like G M is a entity by itself.  It is not.  It is people just like you and they only made a wage like other people.  In the last few years, they began to make better wages,  but there are retirees out there that are living on $ 300.00 a month pension plus social security with health insurance, part Medicare and part G M health benefits.  Salaried retirees, had to give up their health benefits from G M and now G M gives us $ 300.00 from our " over funded pension fund" to buy our own health insurance. How long that will last is anyone's guess.  You probably donot realize that "Bankruptcy" will null and void the contracts that G M has with all its employees,and possibly all the retirees.  How would you like to work for a company for 29 years and then just before you get to retire the contract is deemed obselete?  There are many things to consider, one would be, what if we get into a REAL war,and we have to build tanks and ships and all the other things that go along with a war.  Do you think that the factories that are making foreign cars are going to let us take them over and use them for defense purposes?  Probably not and that means we would have to take them over by force and that would make more enemies for us.There is no easy answer here, especially if we take everything into consideration, and we donot even know every thing we need to consider. I do know that it is not kind to say "let G M go down the drain" and all the people connected with G M - across the nation, because it may be possible that you may be one of them.

your right but your talking to a wall a hillbilly down sorth who never earned more then $6.75 a hour and still lives with old mom

Going to work for half of what they are currently being paid would be to pay them slightly more than they are worth.  Based on the average autoworker's wage compared to wages in other industries with similar manufacturing processes.

What is not being said is that these people have taken numerous pay cuts and reduction in benefits. To be fair, the cost of living is greater than most of our salaries. Please take this in account before making some of these outrageous claims.

Yesterday I went to the doctor and with insurance I had to pay $400 for a simple procedure. Imagine if I did not have insurance...

Or maybe, just maybe, some of those people layed off will have to look for employment in a competitive envirnment where people are paid comensurate with the actual job they do. This industry has been digging it's own grave for years with the help of the precious UAW. Nobody feels sorry for overpaid whinners....

This is true and unfortunate, but if these companies do not file bankruptcy, they will never get better. Putting a band aid on something that requires surgery is not the solution to long term health. Bankruptcy will allow these companies and the UAW to make changes they would not otherwise make.

Right on. Why can`t Detroit make an electric car that goes 100 miles between charges?  Because they have been reluctant to make the changes they needed to make. 

Tesla is going to make maybe two or three $100,000 cars in Carlsbad, CA in the next three years. Sure that would perk Detroit right up.

I have a question...and no disrespect but.....It now takes me 4.5 hrs to drive from DC to NYC.....it's about 250 miles.....how long will it take to charge an electric car?....will my 4.5 hr drive now turn into a day and a half?...maybe 2 days. 100 mile/charge cars are good for inner city driving....but in the "normal" world....people live at least 50 miles away from work.....that's 100 miles right there...

I think electric cars have their place...but....I would prefer natural gas, alt fuel like pond scum...that's right...they are working and almost have it....cars powered by pond scum....corn, corn stalks, wood, what ever....anything but PETROLEUM

Read about the Chevy Volt.  You could almost drive to and from NYC/DC on a tank and charge.

Joan,

I sympathize with your plight, however I must ask, just what does your husband do?  More importantly, what is his salary compared to his peers at the assembly plant?  I would venture to guess that he makes about half what his peers do.  I was an engineer with a tier 1 supplier to another automaker.  Salaries and wages were commonly discussed as incedental to project justification.   Assembly plants typically pay 2 to 3 times what tier 1 suppliers pay.  This excessive wage practice has been a key factor in the demise of the U. S. automakers.  Thank the UAW.

Joan

I think many Americans would support LOANS to the big 3 IF THEY HAD A PLAN. GM in particular seems to have no plan on how to become viable, and the latest figure I saw from what's his face's testimony is that they're burning through $5 billion a month. The timing seems awful because of the financial meltdown, but 2-3 years ago anyone with a lick of sense could see these companies were going to be in a world of hurt whenever the economy cooled off.

Joan,  I find your comments interesting and would.  As I read through these postings I'm stunned by the number of people willing to cede another majore industry to foreign competitors on the basis free market principles.  Free market principles are important, but should be (and are in other countries) controlled at the point where they pose the risk of wiping out longstanding domestic industries.  Failing this we will eventually become an "owned" society, with foreign control over all of our jobs, lives and culture. 

There are a few facts that people should understand while forming their opinions about this loan that the US auto industry is seeking.

Point #1: Both Ford and GM have tried for years to establish manufacturing facilities in Japan without much success.  Japanese government red tape and a general resistance to US-owned automobile manufacturing facilities on the Japanese mainland put and end to this possibility.  As a result, the US manufactuers are limited to the Japanese market by import duties and quota limits.  At the same time, Honda and Toyota received tax breaks and loads of encouragement from US state govermments and municipalities to locate their plants here.  Foreign vehicles built here cost less that the same model imported from Japan for obvious reasons.  Much of the money goes stright back to Japan.

 Point #2: The US-located foreign auto manufactuers are not required to negotiate with the UAW.  They are able to shop the "free market" for workers, while the US-based manufacturers are required under the law to negotiate with the UAW.  This gives the union the power to shut down facilities when they don't get what they want.  Hiring around these union lines is illegal, which effectively hog-ties the US manufactuers.  this places the US industry in a leagally sanctoned disadvantage that over time has eroded the ability of the US autos to remain competitive and control quality.  Solution: Either require the foreign manufactuers to bargain with the UAW or free the US manufactuers of the requirement to do so.  This will create a wage parity that will allow a more competitive domestic product.

Point #3: The US auto industry was in similay disarray in the 1930's due to the economic conditions at the time.  The survival of the industry permitted the US military to mount the greatest wartime effort in US history.  GM, Ford and Chrysler all voluntarily contributed substantial engineering and manufacturing resources to the US government during WWII.  The availability of the necessary expertise by the US auto industry was a key to our success.  The failure of these companies now will represent the permanent loss of these core competencies within the US will make us a less capable nation.

Point #4:  Banruptcy will not work in the auto industry.  Unlike the financial industry, the automakers actually make something tangible.  There are thousands of parts in each car thta are produced by hundreds (if not thousands) of suppliers on a just-on-time basis.  A bankruptcy would kill many of the suppliers and disrupt the whole logistics chain.  The fallout would spread to other automakers via common suppliers and the entire industry would fail. 

I think the industry needs some changes for sure.  However, I think that letting these 100 yesr old company's fail is much more expensive in the long term than working out a solution in the short term.  Play the blame game if you must, but this is an industry that has provided a living to millions of Americans over the last century.

I appreciated your comments.  I believe that the government should help the auto industry but with very tight oversight and regulation as how the loaned money is spent.  I lived in Detroit until 2000.  Now I am in New Orleans which is second to last on a study about which cities would be last to recover.  You guessed it, Detroit is last.  Katrina took about everything special out of New Orleans including all the fortune 500 companies.  Lots of reasons including terrible local, state and national government.  What many of these comments suggest is that they do not understand the dynamics of the auto industry and simply see it as overpaid union workers and overpaid management.  While some criticism is warranted, they don't see what has been done over recent years.  They are quick to leave everything behind.  Sure, the foreign auto companies located in the south.  No surprise, since they could employ workers for far less than in the midwest.  Unions or no unions.  The sad thing about the south, is they don't realize how different the midwest is...i.e., housing, education, health care.  There is a much high standard of living in the midwest.  Having said all that, the Detroit companies must look inward to see the problems they created, and take a heavy hit  before they can see the light again.  If arrogance showed at the hearing today, shame on the Big Three CEOs. 

hey the big 3 needs help from america people  to survior  i rather buy an america made car than  a honda or toyota  cause i have own  both honda and toyota cars and every time they break down it cost alot to fix them too  the big 3 need to down size also look for other ways to improve  ways to make cars cheaper  and look millions of jobs are on the line too    and the ceos need to stop getting big money too

I too sympathise with your plight....as for your 2009 chevy malibu....will you be able to afford the payments?.....and how many MPG do you really get?....anything close to what they advertise?....or is that another ad gimmick...sorry...just had to ask...

Thank you all so much for responding to my post. 

My husband works at nearly a managerial level, is a salaried employee, and makes much more than the line employees make.  His company is non-union and the line workers make roughly $14-$15 per hour, not including other benefits.  Most line workers do not have college educations and have little prospect of other jobs if their company should go under.  The company supplies integral vehicle parts to not only GM but to Ford, Chrysler and some of the foreign car manufacturers.  We have found many job postings on the internet for persons with my husband's qualifications and experience but none of these are located within driving distance of our current city.  This would necessitate a move somewhere else if his company should fail.   

As for our 2009 Malibu (I'm still laughing at your questions!), it's extremely well built, gets approximately 22 mpg in the city and nearly 30 mpg on the highway (it has the larger engine).  And yes, we can afford the car payments as I have a good job myself, though one I will have to lose if we move to another state.  Regardless, we don't want to leave Michigan, even with as many problems as it has.

I know the U.S. automakers have a long way to go and the testimony on Capital Hill by their chairmen was disgraceful at least in part.  But people who don't consider all of the changes that have already occurred, and those that are upcoming, may be focusing blame on the wrong parties.  I only ask them to consider not only the UAW workers but also the suppliers, their employees, the cities in which they live, and all of the families who depend on their income.  This is a far larger economic web than most realize--and this will certainly become apparent once that web begins to disintegrate. 

Joan's snide remark regarding what' his name and her inept comment on burning through 5 bill. per month tells it all.  The cash burn of 5 bill. was for the period of Nov. - March.

The support by the American taxpayer would be there there if GM, Ford and Chrysler would come up with a clear, viable business plan. If they would just show me what they REALLy plan to do to become profitable I would support government assistance. But all I have seen so far are long running Chevy commercials propping up their product line of how many cars they have getting 30mpg or more. Is that their plan? To sell more fuel efficient cars? If it is . . . they are about 2 years too late. 

I feel many of you that support the bridge loan are doing it blindly . . . save our company, save our town, save our jobs. No plan needed . . . just give them the money. That is where you lose the majority of Americans. I do not think it is un-American to ask for a specific plan of how my taxpayer dollars are going to be used. By the way, I am 100% against the bailout of our corrupt financial sector . . . biggest mistake in American history.

I, as a taxpayer, want to know how are they going to show a profit. Otherwise, I am left to feel that the money loaned will be wasted because, in all intent and purpose, GM, Ford and Chrysler will all end up Bankrupt anyways. Give the American taxpayer a plan of action we can get behind . . . otherwise, we are left with ANOTHER failed "bailout."

sure, no different than what is in the south...hard heads and bullies live everywhere...check out new orleans.

Do you really think merging automakers is good business?...good for who?....with less choice comes monopoly....the 3 remaining big US auto makers are different enough for self sustaining business. I don't believe a merger is good for the consumer.

The ONLY thing that will help the big 3 is MAKING 21st and 22nd century autos....huge MPG based on alt fuels  NOT OIL.....anything less is more lip service....by trying to squeeze more MPG from oil...we will still be transferring wealth out of this country to oil producing countries like Arab states and Venezuela.

I say stop the madness and start putting the scientific noses to the grind to produce viable alternative fuels that when created will not negatively impact our food chain like corn would....I'll just bet they can get cars to run on grass if they put their minds to it....I also saw a news piece a while back about cars running on salt water....it was a news piece...not an advertisement.....

We can send people to the moon.....we can surely make alternative fuels....hell...If palin can see Russia from her house....I'm sure we can make 200MPG vehicles that run on grass....and I don't mean cannabis....

35MPG?.....lol....NO PETROL BASED MPG ADVERTISING....IT'S ALL BOGUS ANYWAY!....only alternative fuel vehicles should be allowed to be manufactured...or hybrids of such....by continuing to feed the petroMPG standards....only prolongs their existence...and retards the progression of alternative fuels....get with it people...big oil is doing everything they can to hold on the the strangle hold they have on America and the world....once someone comes up with a car that gets 50MPG on grass or wood chips...what do you think is going to happen to big oil....can you say Hindenburg disaster....oh the humanity....

Chrysler is DOA. Profitable cars are built in robotic factories.

A skilled  auto worker would be an electrician, a millwright, etc. most of whom works a lot of OT. The folks on the line earn a lot less.

Skilled workers do not earned that amount of money unless there is a lot of over-time.  In these times, there is certainly not a lot of overtime. 

The cost to GM includes health care, other benefits and matching Social security.

Yes and totally out of line with the rest of the industry.

DC-ite it is an ugly necessity because they will fail whether they are given bailout money or not.

If they fail, we all fail, believe it or not skipastar.  This is not Katrina or even close.  It will be 10 fold or more of that in terms of what it will do to the economy of this entire nation.  I sincerely and respectfully hope you don't want it to fail, for if you do, you will most definitely not be happy with the results.

Carol we are already there.  My husband is a pilot who lost his job just about a year ago.  I abhor the thought of all the people who will lose jobs its horrible but if they are given the money they will still fall,  the "fall" will just be postponed.  I think its great that the woman whose hubby works for GM just bought a 2009 Malibu but A LOT of people in this country can not not afford to do this and  A LOT of banks right now would be unwilling to give the loan.  We drive a 96 dodge ram and a 1995 ford explorer. We bought the explorer used when it was 2 two years old as we do not believe any automobile is worth the new car price.  And also we buy used because we can not afford to buy new even when hubby was working.  The prices of our cars are outrageous,  and not even atainable by most of our american society.  The big 3 is going to fall with or without a bailout the latter will just postpone the inevitable. It is sad but it is the truth.  When it is time to die it is time, and they have been ill for a long time. My father built a very successful business when I was young, but times changed and we could not compete with the larger operations.  Dad quit BEFORE we were in the red.

Skipastar: I agree with you completely! I am newly retired,(not from the big 3) and don't have near the benefits that they have. I also can't afford buying new cars. Nor would I if I could. The last new car we bought (G.M.) had an empty beer can where the air cleaner filter should have been. We shop at Volunteers of America for clothes, and Save-A-Lot for food. My wife is on medical disability, from a Federal job and it took us 4 years and an attorney to get the meger money that she does recieve with no insurance. I have some insurance through my pension, although I pay the bulk out of pocket to the point of where I had to take on a part time job, while my wife is practically bed ridden. You reap what you sew! What monies we get, we tithe. And we live. We don't have credit cards, we don't have new cars and we don't try and keep up with the Jones's. And we live. We give to charities, we hand make things for our Grandchildren, and we live. We don't ask for help, and we live. We stand on our own 2 feet. AND WE LIVE! It's time others did the same.

We don't ask for help...disability benefits and Social Security Disability is "welfare" with a nicer name. How long has she been on claims...is it more than she puts into the system?

We are all standing on our own two feet, but there are times when we need help like applyingand getting SSDI

Sometimes it is necessary to ask for help. There is a fallacy in your argument Penny. Ask any disabled Veteran or guardian/parent of a person with disabling disabilities if their financial lifeline is comparable with "welfare" as most of us understand this "denegration" of taxpayer funds?

I completely Agree.  These bail-outs are moving us away from our current system, a tried true system that works if you keep gov't out of the picture,  and dangerously close to socialism.

no disrespect sean...but the system doesn't work...never has...never will....it works for only for the fortunate...the few....the rich....if worked for the majority of Americans...we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now...

Everyone crys OMG...Socialism!....people....Taxes are a form of socialism....do some homework....the "free market" is a game played by the rich....not by the little guy...the only game played by the little guy is "do what it takes to survive".....

Look at the TV...Radio...everybody is telling you...that cash is bad...credit is good?....visa commercials should be censured....buy a new car every year?...why?....BECAUSE THEY WON'T LAST OVER A YR BEFORE MAJOR MONEY NEEDS TO BE SPENT ON THEM....Does anyone really need $100 tennis shoes from Nike...that are made in Korea and cost a a dime in Chinese money to make?....people....we have been brain washed by "free market economy"....into forgetting the values that have made this country great.... no one saves...."I want it now no matter if I can't afford it" was/is a recipe for disaster...and it has struck...and struck hard....at the juggler vein of America...it's people....Stop the madness....use some common sense....if you want something....think first if you need it or not.....the time of $100 tennis shoes....and $50,000 autos that last 1 yr are over....

and while I don't believe foreign auto makers should have it any easier....you can't blame them for making a better product all these yrs...they saw reality...reality to them was US autos were junk....and if they wanted a piece of the pie...they would have to make cars that were NOT JUNK....don't get me wrong...not all foreign cars are great...remember the yugo?...or the toyota tercel?.....for that matter....

Bottom line people....take a step back....look at where we made mistakes....material things are not bad in all cases....but they should be worked for....not gotten on credit...and not so easily.....If we are to LOAN money to the Big 3 Auto Makers....IT SHOULD NOT BE DONE HOW CONGRESS DID IT TO AIG AND THE BANKS....IN FACT...THAT MONEY SHOULD BE SEIZED AND RETURNED.....NO...IF WE LEND MONEY TO THE AUTO MAKERS...IT SHOULD BE WITH REAL AND MEANINGFUL STRINGS ATTACHED LIKE....MANDATORY MPG STANDARDS....IF THEY SAY THEY CAN'T DO IT...THEY'RE LYING!

Very well put whoknew. The truth always sounds like what it is. While you are at it people; you may want to consider joining a Credit Union. Has anyone heard of them "going under?" Or "poor-mouthing" to the government for anything?

That is why I am in a Credit Union Allthewaylive. I don't trust banks because most are corrupt and only looking to make excessive profit. Credit Unions are the best and safest place to keep money. They don't take risks . . . hence the reason you don't hear any going under.

I would agree, but these companies are begging for the money with no change in business plans.  Why should we loan money to failing compaines and no plan on their part to change the business models that got them in this mess in the first place.  Few of us would make a this loan with the money we have.

what is this, a shakedown? Give us all your money, or we will throw everyone out of work?

We keept hearing the need to bail them out and this will last until March or April.  Then what will we hear.  Same story.  Let them file for chapter 11 and restructure with new managment and redo the union contracts which is viable under Chapter 11 reorganization. 

I agree.  The UAW like most unions in America have served their purpose in the past.  But labor laws today provide for the workers.  Unions are just a way to hold a gun to an employers head and demand more.  The more goes around and around until we can no longer survive the costs.  The automakers seen this coming thirty years ago and did little until the union killed the effort altogether.  Bankruptcy is not the end, but it is a new beginning.  I am sick and tired of paying upwards of forty thousand dollars for a needed vehicle that usually turns out to cost another small fortune to maintain.  Sorry autoworkers, but you never should have allowed the unions to become so greedy.

There are not labor laws to protect workers. Every state is"at will" and if they want to fire you, they do not need a reason. There is no one other that the unions to fight for fair wages and working conditions. Management has cosistantly demonstrated that they are ethically challenged, almost ethically blind. The UAW was just fighting for their piece of the pie. Management raked off huge amount of cash as bonuses and they are the true culprits. A truly down sized transportation system will be ultra-light elevated rail that could economically provide transport. Upkeep of transportation infrastructure is bringing our country down. The entire 150 year old transport system needs to be redesigned. The old one is almost too broke to repair.  

may be you should get a union to represent you. so you don't have to sound so envious of the hard working uaw member.  They earn every dollar they get.

When I was a hard working union employee I earned $10 per hour, hard working UAW was making $16. The money isn't there anymore to pay your negotiated wages. The rate may have been fair but it wasn't sustainable.

I look at it as why should these other industries settle for 2 or 3 times less. I am not uaw, but i am pro union. The last time i checked, the foriegn vehicles were costing as much or more than domestic. Where is the excess profit going, if not being shared with employees. Why are so many people attacking other people for making a decent middle class living with healthcare, and pension. Is it out of jelousy for some having what you don't, or is it out of a feeling of entitlement because your parents had enough money to send you to college for a few years, and you think you should be making alot more money than these other people. It is a shame that people do not root for everybody to make a decent living. Average salaries vs the cost of living go down every year, and we have people like you cheering it on. I am a union sheet metal worker. I would be curious to find out what you do for a living.

A line worker makes about $50,000 a year on a 40 Hr week.

Better than a lot of jobs, but much less than the base salery of the wall street fat cats who I heard the other day make a base of $125,000 a year. The person that said this on CNBC was woried about the poor darlings not getting any bonuses on top of this large amount. The people that are complaining about the Auto workers should be complaining about the government bailout of the very people that caused the economic crash in the first place.

The other reason that we are having an economic crash is because the people on the bottom have not been getting their fair share of the economic pot and for that reason they have run out of money and thus they are not buying anything if they can help it. They all need to be making more money so that they can get out of debt and be able to at least buy lifes necessities .

Killing off the few jobs that we have left that pay a living wage will do nothing but cause an economic depression that will not only take your breath away, but which will cause many of you to lose your wallets also, because the economy will go down even more than it has already!

I forgot to mention that the new hire wage under the new contract is $14 an hour which translates into $29120 a year. They also do not get retirement and they do not get the insurance benefit that the older workers do. Looks like we are all going to be living in the grass hut that I predicted years ago when NAFTA first came in. We can't compete with nations that don't have any substantial standard of living. Did you ever wonder why our Grandfathers and and parents had trade bariers in place. We of course are smarter than them, or so we are told. I wonder why it isn't working? Hmmm

"We can't compete with nations that don't have any substantial standard of living."

This statement sounds absurd.

its not about competing with nations that "dont have a substantial standard of living"... no no no

its about competing with other car companies that make BETTER CARS.

When I made the statement about competing with the foreign countries that do not have a very good standard of living, I was not talking about the car companies alone. I was talking about the entire US economy! Where are you buying your shoes, shirts, and pants from? Where are you getting your dog food from, even if it killed your dog? The point that I am making is that we are buying a lot of our goods from foreign sources and they are making the money, not us!

It’s true that the cars we are buying from foreign sources are being assembled in this country. That means that only the assembly cost of the car is kept in this country. Most of the other cost of parts is sent back to the countries that are making the engines, transmissions etc.  Is that the economy that you want for your children? How long do you think that we can continue to send our dollars overseas and still remain a major power in the world?  Those dollars will come back to bite us in the posterior. Can you raise your family on $7.00 an hour? I can’t! Not even on $8 or $9 an hour.

The US auto makers have caught up with the quality of the foreign autos but many US buyers have not recognized that, because they are 10 year behind in comparing the quality of the US cars with the foreign companies. If you want your son and daughter to be required to be speak Chinese or Japanese or Russian keep the same attitude you have now.  The foreigners will own us completely and we will not have any free will of our own.

If the US auto has truly caught up to their foreign competition, then they need to do a better job of marketing that fact. I do not personally believe we have caught up with Japan re: quality, but that's just me.

Re: foreigners owning us, they already do. Who pays for our wars? Who pays for our consumption? We keep talking about this being the richest country in the world - fact is, this is the brokest  country in the world.

I think things are much better today than what they have been in the past. I have owned GM cars for 40 years and I have seen a steady improvement in the quality in the last ten to fifteen years. I also had a few Dodges and Fords that I wasn’t too impressed with along the way but that may have been because I bought them used. Unfortunately I have to admit that GM did not put much effort into quality back in the seventies and eighties and that earned them a bad reputation that they still live with today. Back then they pushed it out the back of the factory and if there was a problem they trusted the dealer to fix it, which didn’t always happen. A lot of times even if they fixed it the customer was not happy with that kind of product. Once you give a customer a bad experience they are almost impossible to win back. From about 1995 onward they have recognized that and they have seemed to be at least trying to do much better. Today the quality effort is much better in that the two different factories where my two brothers work that I am familiar with, they say that the push is always for making the best product that they can. Unfortunately one of them is a SUV plant that is history as of Dec 23.

I hope that the US companies survive because if they don’t they are very likely to take us and the rest of the economy down with them. A lot of people would like to get even with them for how they were in the past, but they don’t know what they are asking for when they want a big three bankruptcy. The 25 or perhaps even 50 billion dollars will be cheap if they can save them. Not doing anything will cost the tax payers much much more. The people who know the industry talk about 1-3 million lost jobs in the industry and 1 million retired workers with greatly reduced pensions and no insurance in their old age. The Government will only pick up a maximum of 60 % of the pension and that could be much less for some retirees, as well as adding a much bigger burden on the pension guarantee fund. The economic problems that we have are being caused in a large part by the working class people not having enough to spend on necessities and a few luxuries and this kind of disaster would make the situation much worse in an instant.

If you also add in all of the retail stores and the restaurants and many other businesses that will suffer or go broke from such a situation, that scenario would be a major disaster. If we add all of that on top of the problems that the Wall Street greed has already caused, that may put our economy into a spiral from which we will not recover for years. Kind of like 1929-33. Jim Cramer on CNBC said the same thing in that he said that if they let the big three go down it will be a Great Depression # 2.

George,

You are dead on . . . most of these minions still think we are the strongest and richest nation in the world. Take a look around folks . . . we are the most in debt nation on earth. Believe what you want, but the numbers do not lie. We have sold ourselves to "live the American dream" of greed and excessiveness.