What is your prediction for the economy in 2009?

This only gets worse, in 1990, I saw something like this coming, sometime in the later half of 2000 an "Economic Disaster", tried to have my State set up an "Economic Buffer 1993" that would have made us also Energy Independent.  They laughed and said that I was wearing a tin foil hat, conspiracy theorist, etc..  So I TOLD YOU SO.  Now who is wearing that tin foil hat shaped like a dunce cap.

Sent this message:

Really love your show.  I know I am a guy.  Still love your show.  Great job.
 
 
Just have to say this, with the current US Economic Situation.  Hopefully DOES NOT happen.
 
Rachel Ray: (Emphatically)  Whats for dinner tonight?
 
Rachel Ray: (Smiling) Depression Era Dog Food Stew.  MMMMMGood.
 
Rachel Ray:  (Cheerful) This will stretch that one can of Dog Food out to about one week.  Uh, huh, yes you can.
 
Rachel Ray:  (look of concern)  Is this safe to eat.  Oh yes it is.  The pet food laws passed during the Great Depression are more strict than food eaten by people....humans.  (cheerful) Well, hey, your grandparents ate it.
 
LOL.  I had to say this.  Considering we the US Citizens were lied to.  The losses were not 700 Billion USD.  It is more than 60 Trillion USD due to the ISDA. 
 
Ok, I know it is not funny, people losing their life savings.  It is just that I have to laugh at how stupid this is, me defending against enemies foreign and domestic, fighting these Corporate Wars for Natural Resources (Oil), and being called "U Stupid of America by foreigners that can see how stupid  (hyporcritical) all this is.
 
Depression and Recession Definitions:
 
Depression, those that caused the losses and economic crisis, "man up", and jump off the tops of buildings.  Therefore avoid being lynched, criminal prosecution, or being labelled as traitors.
 
Recession, US rewards those that caused the losses and economic crisis.  So that they can come back again, like GM, Ford, Chrysler, for "mo money". 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s.  Recently September 2008, 25 Billion USD.  Same attitude, same psychology, same people, same results, for Wall Street Corporations (Corporate Board Members are on numerous boards, same people).

Supplemental Information originally posted August 2008.  Researched from 1990-2008.

I was supporting his run for the presidency until he chose the scumbag Biden.

So you heard about his paying back his campaign contributors:
Delaware: Freddie Mac, Fanny Mae, Bank of America, Wilmington Trust, First USA / Bank One / JPMorgan Chase, AIG, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, Barclays plc, GM, Chrysler, Wachovia, ExxonMobil, Chevron, ISDA, and those States with Corporations Incorporated at Delaware. 
 

ISDA. The People that brought you:  the 60 to 100 Trillion USD (it is not 700 Billion USD US Economic Crisis) Global Economic Crisis.  These people will be back for more just like GM, Ford, Chysler, September 2008, 25 Billion, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, to milk the cash cow.  updated add: AIG, Billions USD.  The 60 to 100 Trillion USD does not include the usary interest protected by the Delaware Court of Chancery.

International Swaps and Derratives Association Incorporated, isda.org
 
Over 50% of US publicly-traded corporations and 60% of the Fortune 500 companies are incorporated in Delaware;[1] the state's attractiveness as a corporate haven is largely due to its business-friendly corporation law. Franchise taxes on Delaware corporations supply about one-fifth of its state revenue.[2]

1. Delaware Corporate Notebook

2. Delaware General Fund, 2007, By Category

Before someone says Oh, but I contributed 2,000 USD.  Consider how much it costs to short term lease hundreds of campaign offices in each State.  Consider that campaign contributions from the above list is nearly a Billion Each (ok just short of a Billion).  This is the reason the BIPARTISAN Campaign Reform Act was not adhered to, no disclosure, no accountability to the public.  (now being reported by CBS News, 12112008,  http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4661792n).

Specific Locations that Benefitted from Financial Institution Bailout for Electoral College Votes:

http://realestate.msn.com/Buying/Article_busweek.aspx?cp-documentid=10856357>1=35000
http://realestate.msn.com/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=10857148

I have been watching all of this "green" stuff since the 1970s Oil Crisis.  And the more that I learn about the solutions and what the Corporations and Politicians do to manipulate the situation the more pissed I get.  The worst part of this is that the public blindly believes them.

NO BODY, I REPEAT NO BODY.  Especially, Lawyers turned Professional Politician, Corporate Board Members, etc. does squat for altruistic reasons.

If you believe any of them do anything for altruistic reasons, then drop those pants and underware, grab those ankles.

Auto Bailout

Of course what is not said.  The 17.4 Billion USD pays for a Restructuring Plan due March 2009.  When that is done they will ask for 150 Billion USD to implement that Restructuring Plan.  Which includes the Closure of 1/3 US Plants/Factories, Layoff 1/3 US Work Force, while retaining the Mexican, Canadian, Chinese Plants/Factories to become "Financially Viable".  per Congressional Testimony.

Irregardless of what Political Party.  It is part of the Job Description of a State Senator to remain in constant contact with the State Govenor to figure out what is best for State Representation at Federal Government.

Therefore Illinois Senator Barack Obama continuous contact with Illinois State Governor Rod Blagojevich .

You don't want to believe it.  How about those Michigan Representatives. getting minimum wage earners working two or more part time jobs with no health benefits as taxpayers having to pay for someone else to make more money.  Happy Holidays, those minimum wage earners darn sure can't afford one.

They took away the Laws to prevent a 1907 Depression, and 1929-39 Great Depression, 2000. So what do you expect, a Super Nova Depression.  2000.

Good luck

Happy Holidays

They took away the Laws to prevent a 1907 Depression, and 1929-39 Great Depression, 2000. So what do you expect, a Super Nova Depression.  2000.

typo.  It was 2000-2001 when Congress passed Law that removed the Laws to prevent Depressions from occuring.

It was 2000-2001 when Congress passed Law that removed the Laws to prevent a 1907 Depression, and 1929-39 Great Depression. So what do you expect, a Super Nova Depression.  

How many of you are even concerned about H.R. 1955 aka S.1959

You should be.

You are absolutely correct. Our Constitution provides us the right to change our government through any means necessary; yet, our government is now making laws trying to prevent any potential change....while jailing Americans along the way. Everyone needs to read this proposed bill and understand what is going on from coast to coast. The Federal Government is completely out of control.

agreed 100%. A majo rfactor in combatting core inflation right now is low gasoline. As to be expected by the forces of supply and demand, oil companies are cutting back and not investing. Once demand comes back, we won't have the supply, and prices will resurge. I believe a combination of all this fake money pumped into the system coupled with a resurgence in energy prices will kill. don't fall for this "deflation" people. It will fool you. We are on the verge of an inflationary depression.

These jokers in DC are playing a very dangerous game - trying to reinflate the blown banking bubble and stave off deflation with more inflation. The problem is that deflation seems to be setting in in the "real" world (not the imanginary CPI/PPI one that these guys live in) where people are waiting to spend, and finding prices failing as they wait .... If they get lucky and actually stop this trend, we can look foreward to 1970s style stagflation - and they get millions a year for this????? the odds of this working out for the average "joe" are pretty close to zero!

Great job david, arby, doom, and Econ. We are in trouble. Wiki the Roman Empire. "The Crisis of the Third Century is a commonly applied name for the crumbling and near collapse of the Roman Empire between 235 and 284. During this time, 25 emperors reigned, and the empire experienced extreme military, political, and economic crises. This period ended with the accession of Diocletian, who reigned from 284 until 305, and who solved many of the acute problems experienced during this crisis. However, the core problems would remain and cause the eventual destruction of the western empire." Click on Diocletian's link to view the positive changes he made to sustain the empire about a hundred more years. Click on the crisis of the third century to read of the many problems needing repair and to compare our period in history.

"Internally the empire faced hyperinflation caused by years of coinage devaluation. This had started earlier under the Severan emperors who enlarged the army by one quarter[citation needed] and doubled the base pay. As each of the short-lived emperors took power they needed ways to raise money quickly to pay the military's "accession bonus" and the easiest way to do so was by simply cutting the silver in coins and adding less valuable metals." These problems compare to this period wherein deregulation allowed banks to create more and more money utilizing derivatives which skirted reserve ratios requirements that has helped to finance the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with conventional and private higher priced military forces.

"The measure of wealth at this time began to have less to do with wielding urban civil authority and more to do with controlling large agricultural estates. The common people lost economic and political power to the nobility, and the middle classes waned. The Crisis of the Third Century thus marked the beginning of the long evolutionary process that would transform the ancient world into the medieval world." Unless every problematic area in U.S. society is corrected to restore balance and equality, because of the magnitude of the recent corrupt management of our monetary system, our country as we know it will go the way of the Roman Empire. We are a young country historically and if we treat symptoms and correct some problems we will surely fail. Our political leaders must be held responsible for restoring our country and not be allowed to act as foreign agents representing foreign countries or states as the Republican Senators did recently in the Big 3 auto maker bailout hearings. A socialist shift must occur after this bank heist. To do anything less would be a repeat of the middle class common man decline that doomed the Roman Empire.

Lastly, Diocletian "From at least 297 on, imperial taxation was standardized, made more equitable, and levied at generally higher rates" stabilized the empire, but was offset by attempts at price controls to correct for the hyperinflation. Consequently, an adjustment to our tax code favored by none other than Warren Buffett to be more equitable is necessary. Also, economic manipulation designed to correct for previous unsound policy must be time tested as being the proper tactic; otherwise, a compounding of problems like we currently are suffering from will surely doom this country.

What are you NUTS???  You must sell real estate for a living and are in some dream state of wanting to see real estate come back.  Well it won't in 2009 and maybe not in 2010.  Homes will continue to drop.  Most people are totally stressed out financially and the next crisis coming is the credit cards.  Go to any FOOD store and people are buying with credit cards.  Banks are about to slam that door shut and then people are in trouble.  Not to mention unemployment.  It will easily reach a reported (government reports are always wrong) 9% but in reality will be closer to 20% when you count the shortened hours and part time workers and those who have just given up.  Most people will have a difficult time being a QUALIFIED buyer.  They will have limited down payments and their credit and income will be tight.  Realtors will encourage more bad loans such as 97% loans with their heavy mortgage insurance.  With the dropping prices, everyone you sell a home to will be in the unside down position and forced to stay in that home forever with little equity for a long time.  All realtors care about is their pocket not the buyers.  Sad.  That is what created this mess.  We need to get rid of all commissions and just make it a flat $500 to the realtors and banks for closing costs.  That would stop all of the terrible loans.  Unfortunately this world is money hungry with little soul.  My best advice for now is HOLD ON.  Wait at least 2 years and then buy.  You will thank me.  I stopped all my friends from buying last year and are they ever HAPPY!  Don't listen to these so called experts.  They just want your money.  Oh and don't count on the new President Obama...he won't be able to change anything except to make it worse.  People are going to be so upset at how bad things get under his administrations.  It's not his fault...just the way things are.  And all the newly empowered Senators and Representatives just want to SPEND SPEND SPEND on their pet (PORK) projects.  Hang on...we are in for a rough 4 years.

You've got to be kidding me.  This economy is in the tank due to irresponsible spending from the government and individuals over the past decade or so.  You honestly think that a President Obama, a man who majored in constitutional law and minored in finance is going to do a worse job than a man who got into Yale on legacy and has bankrupted every company he's ever been in charge of?

If you ran a business, who would you rather be in charge?  It floors me that people are "scared" of President Obama.  It's about time America had the foresight to elect someone who is actually qualified to do a job.

I agree with you 100%. Commercial Real Estate is going to BLOW UP in 2009, along with the PAY OPTION ARM Mortgages... that NO ONE is talking about. This will mean more Foreclosures on the Horizon over the next 2 years along with the Unemployed, who will not be able to make their motgage payments. In Miami, we have a 33 month supply of unsold Homes and a 42 month supply of unsold Condo's. There is still Contruction of R NEW Residential properties still going on right at this moment in Miami & Ft. Lauderdale.  NO ONE will be buying any of these properties... This is the WORST HOUSING BUST SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION!!!!!

 Don't look for any bottom in the Housing Bust until late 2010 or the middle of 2011. I have advised all my friends NOT to purchase any type of real estate... unless they have no other choice and need somewhere to live. It is MUCH CHEAPER to RENT right now... and this will be true for the next 2 years.

I also agree that President Obama and the Democratic Controlled Congress will spend $1 Trillion Dollars trying to solve the problem... BUT it will only makes things WORSE and prolong the Global Financial Crisis!!!! We are headed for the WORST 3 or 4 years since the Great Depression... Many families will feel that we are in the Next Great Depression!!!

I just hope that they prosecute and JAIL all of the Greedy people that created this HUGE Mortgage Meltdown.... Believe me there are LOTS of people that are responsible for this DEBACLE!!!!

The credit card companies are jacking up Interest rates on ALL credit cards setting consumers up to FAIL... so they can BANG them with Higher Interest Charges and Late Fees. In addition to this, they are going to cut credit limits on many of the people that have been surviving on their credit cards. Bankruptcies will reach RECORD Levels in 2009!!!

Unemplyment will hit 10% before the end of 2009, but it will actually be much higher due to many full time workers have their hours cut and the people that have given up looking for a new job!!!!  WHAT A DISASTER!!!!

Don't

You've got to be out of your mind. The greed and selfishness of the realestate business combined with the government assessors unrealistic evaluations of properties was the perfect chance for the mortage industry to put the screws to home buyers. I remember a situation with farmland in the 70's where farm land values went from $450/ acre to over $2000/ acre in the time span of a year. The farmers were happy, now they had equity to buy expensive farm equipment and build nice homes. A year and a half later the land was worth $400/acre, many farmers were deeply in dept and as a result lost their farms, many of which were handed down for generations. The banks took them and ironically many were sold to Saudi Arabians. I see no difference in whats been happening in the housing industry. The winners are real estate agents, the bankers, the county government......the loosers the home purchasers.

Banks are starting to stabelize the forclosed homes problem by auctioning off at bargain prices to rich investors. However, the more stringent lending requirements leave the common people out of this previlege. Remember though, this isn't half the burden the banks have to deal with: the comercial relistate is doomed to cause much larger losses ahead!

I can't believe you are holding to this Motto of Up and down. This isnt about Up and down of the market. This is a great big snow ball picking up speed and anything caught in the way will pay dearly for it. Mortgage money is available to those who can afford it- key words- afford it! The real estate industry is mostly a scam- few career realitors have done the right thing, and most are culpable in selling to people who should have never been given a loan, conning the people, up selling a market that was already unstable, up rating the actual value of homes, bribing the assesors, pandering to the local officials to raise prices and thus raise property tax revenues. Allowing the corporate builders to just fuel the fire and not upgrade the infrastructure- Look at Maryland water main break. Anyone reading this will realize very quickly that you dont need a realitor. Title search, lawyers to draw up the papers and a bank to fund the transaction. I dont pay realitor points or even brokerage funding points. I buy and sell real estate all day long and thereis nothing worse than a realitor trying to push me somewhere I dont want to go. My experience has been very bad and I discount every house I sell by the points I would have paid to the Ilk of the reality world. You people started this, your brokers agreed to it, the bankers bought into it, the assessors took the pay off's, the Governments turned a blind eye as the taxes flowed in, all the way to the top of the US Government who ultimately deregulated the whole darn thing to make what you were doing Legal!

No personal first mortgage should ever be allowed in the Public trust! They should be locked down to the originating bank and held for a minimum of 5 years- this would slow down the greed factor, keep the books straight and protect the homeowners from loosing their homes due to scams. If a bank doesnt have enough deposits, then they have to stop lending money- simple. Over night funds - yes, exceeding deposits and the ability to pay off the depositors - No way!

Seconds, home equity and personal loans- thats what should be allowed to be resold into the market. If people are dumb enough to use their home as leverage then they get what they deserve. If they borrowed the money to pay bills that is a first indication things are wrong and the risk is high and there is no way the real estate industry can then call a turd a good thing to invest into.

Current US mortgage structure is designed to totally rip the customer off remember this folks. I just dont believe how short peoples memories are. I owe nothing and work all my real estate on my own shoulders- I dont want to burst any bubbles here but I didnt have money when I Started this process and all the risk is mine, but then again so are the profits. It took me 4 years starting in the late 1980's to be debt free and I have remained so since then. I currently have 3 properties for sale 10% below the local market and I bought them for pennies on the dollar. I work full time at a real job- I own a manufacturing company and yes things are bad. We didnt carry a lot of debt at the company so I havent had to lay anyone off and probably wont until late 2009 if things dont turn around.

I blame the last 25 years of Lame duck - greedy congressmen- women and senators combined with the hidden agenda of the Fed that has brought the whole thing tumbling down and the dishonesty and greed of the real estate industry for this terrible mess we are in.

And if anyone is wondering- Yes I bought a small gold mine way up in the Yukon that activly produces Gold 15 years ago when it was worthless!

Use your money people in a wise way- think like your grandpa and grandma- you will be fine! Dont believe a word that anyone in the stock market or realestate industry has to say. It is all about them and not about you!

Merry Christmas!!!

AMEN! You have my vote for Treasury Secretary. I have repeatedly talked the point that the government is NOT your friend (read anything the Founding Fathers wrote about gov't outside of whats is in the constitution. They stress that gov't is to be watch closely by those it govern), also greedy business men/women make greedy (deceptive) decision in THEIR OWN INTEREST! Than vote/lobby/support/pay/bribe/buy lawmakers to pave their path to wealth. The victims; consumers(tax-payers) middle-class, HONEST business people & law-makers, and future generations. A vicious cycle that "rapes" all in its path to include those that created it.

I've found that people who write as poorly as you do have very low levels of intelligence and reasoning skill. Your argument might be called specious if it sounded plausible but it really makes no sense at all to think that people with no money are going to buy real estate - regardless of the price. By the way, it's phase not faze. phool.

Um, I think you're forgetting the fact that prices have only gone up since the great depression (with a couple minor bumps) and have steadily increased since the 1990's. This coupled with tons of cash and low interest rates to borrow created a hyper inflation of the real estate market (think 1990's tech stocks). We have a long way to go to balance out the equations of all the markets since there were trillions of dollars added to the system in the late 1990's early 2000's and the majority of them are now in the top 1%'s pocket. There is a ridiculous disparity between the uber rich and average working class and if this doesn't correct itself it will cause a total economic collapse of the dollar. Unless the richest rich rent to the poorest poor the housing market will not recover anytime soon. There are no organic homebuyers left as they are losing their jobs left and right and having to file for bankruptcy. I think you're underestimating the situation by a mile but only time will tell.

time to buy? I doubt it ....

If Obama was smart he would do nothing other than a little hand holding and have a good bedside manner and let it shake out as it should and will,but like all in the  political field he will think he must do something,anything and throwing money at it will be the firstthing that will solve the problem.It won't... 

Dear Bob;

Throwing some money my way would help greatly and maybe a smiggen of employment?

We been throwing money around like it belongs to someone else, but none to us?

Have we been paying attention?

something,anything and throwing money at it will be the firstthing that will solve the problem.It won't...

The reality is that throwing money at the problem only creates poverty. Wealth is created from collective work, and not from welfare (so called bailouts).

So wether it's throwing money at the people (which hasn't happened) or throwing money at bankers and corporations, it will not solve the problem.

The reason money is always thrown at the people at the top (less than 1% of our society) is that they think they can escape the dire times ahead by keeping themselves at the top of the pyramid. I.e., they'll be the last to starve if they were able to pocket billions of dollars, or so that's the thinking.

You are so smart and so right. 

The wants of the few out weight the needs of the many.

Nice post, ur.

Yeah, history has shown that socialist societies are SOOO effective. Are you kidding me? You are just having the same feelings of disenfranshisement that thousands of other people had when they lost everything in the great depression. I understand socialism sounds good, but it has been proven time and again to not work. If you like it so much then move to Russia or China which despite their capitalist front are still very communist.

Something tells me your not gonna put your money where your mouth is because you know as well as I do that both of those countries really suck. What makes you think it would be any different here?

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

"Sell everything and put it into your local banks so at least they can lend the company you work for money to pay your salary for a while longer."

Man, are you a clueless one. Banks do now lend money that you deposit. Banks lend money they make out of thin air. Clearly you do not understand our financial system. Anyway, banks create money that they lend you based on collateral that you give them. If you have a house that is worth something and your credit is good, they may lend you some money (regardless of whether they have cash on deposit or not). If banks have a ton on money on deposit and you show up asking for a loan but have no collateral, they will not lend you anything. They want to make sure that if you don't pay them they can keep something valuable you have. And if you do pay their loan and interest, then they make a ton of money for doing literally nothing (i.e., you just paid them rent on money that you borrowed that they didn't evene have). For a 101 class on the banking system, watch the video Money As Debt which you can find on youtube or google video.

If I earn a lot of money, I want to keep it, spend it how I choose, and give it to whom I choose.  I don't believe a government of any kind, much less a socialist government, is any more immune from greed and corruption than the system we now have.  Therefore, I do not trust the government to make decisions as to how much of my earnings I keep and how much they can take and redistribute to whomever they choose. 

If I EARNED a lot of money, I do not want the government deciding to give it away to ne're-do-wells, crack-head recovery programs, or shiftless individuals.  A Socialist society breeds people who will not take responsibility for themselves, because they no longer have to. 

I don't make a lot of money.  But no thank you anyway to Socialism.

many of us agree that some form of socialism is needed, but as long as the fearful, fearmongering right associates socialism with the worst form of communism, there will not be the social relief needed. Every industrialized nation has socialized medicine, and it works, but what do we hear in this country? the idea is called a boondoggle by the conservative right. And yet the fear is fueled by the business owners and corporations that are generally run by right-wing conservatives!

Last time I checked, we were a democracy.  This is the belief this country was founded on.  I am sorry, I went to college for 9 years and put in 55+ hour work weeks.  I don't think it is fair that I should have to "spread my wealth" around and be penalized for my hard work.

Canada is calling you!

Stoneybrook ~ I think you have a misunderstanding about what socialism is. Socialism is not a governing system but an economic system. You can have a socialist democracy, as many countries in Europe do. Like the Swiss and Dutch. It would help if you educated yourself outside the little box called college. If you don't know the difference between government and economics maybe you should go to another college, or maybe learn something on your own. Oh and by the way, capitalism isn't 'fair' either, but you wouldn't know that because it hasn't been unfair to you...yet.

Maybe you should move to Europe then goddessHerb. This nation has already "socialized" far too much as it is. Government is around every corner. Taxes, fees, legislation, ordinances, redlight cameras, PSA announcements to threaten us with arrest, tolls that never end, global warming mania, career politicians, etc.

I am of the opinion that most Americans have had just about enough. If we continue much longer down this path then this country is going to literally break apart. Never in my life have I heard so much open talk about "revolution" or civil war or riots. We are hearing this daily on national news broadcasts--these are not nutty conspiracy theorists.

We can only take so much of the government in our pockets! Everyone wants to fix health care and/or retirements systems but to think we are all responsible for the laziness of everyone else is silly. It has never worked.

If you needed a heart transplant would you go to Netherlands or maybe the Cleveland Clinic or UPHS?

A major european collapse is right around the corner. Next year is going to be worse for Europe than the United States. Their "open borders" experiment is going to bring about consequences of heavy proportions.

I was in London last year and I might as well have been in Pakistan. I also went to Germany but I could have sworn I was in Turkey. Europe is a mess and history has shown us they do not get along so well when the chips are down.

The reason the U.K. tends to favor the U.S. is because they know they cannot trust their "brothers" on the Continent. Never worked in the past.

We do NOT need any more socialized anything. We need a streamlined government and major corrections in our monetary policy. I would love to see a good health care solution but not a "socialized" one.

You are missing the point of true socialism- power by the people.  The only reason it hasn't worked in countries like China and Russia is because those countries are really run by greedy leaders (dictators) too.  It does not matter what type of government/economic system is in place because there will always be greedy men who want to control and have everything while they want while they run their country into the ground. We are all screwed so get over it and either join us or get out of our way.

keep dreaming, urlemmings

you are an idiot. I lived in socialism. It does not work. If you distribute the resources equally among people, it eliminates the motivation to do better - does not matter what you do, you will do as well as the lazy drunk next door. I have experienced that first hand, that's why I am here.

whit-783460,surely you jest. First off, which argument below did you want to make, Socialism or Communism? A wandering non-factual argument about socialism with a rant about all of us moving to Communist Russia or China clearly does not make sense, among other things.

"Yeah, history has shown that socialist societies are SOOO effective. Are you kidding me? You are just having the same feelings of disenfranshisement that thousands of other people had when they lost everything in the great depression. I understand socialism sounds good, but it has been proven time and again to not work. If you like it so much then move to Russia or China which despite their capitalist front are still very communist."

Now that I've exposed the soundness of your comment, let's examine your argument that socialism has been proven time and again not to work. First, you cite no proof to buttress your claim. Second, Germany is Socialist with capitalist tendencies. Unions are prevalent there and keep wages high. Taxes are high, but health care is universal. They run a trade surplus which obviously keeps their wages from falling. Third, the U.S. is capitalist, with a dose of social(ism) security. We have been and are shipping our manufacturing jobs to slave wage countries and to hide that fact we went on a reckless debt expansion program to try and feel better about the whole thing, and that make us better than Germany? Please enlighten me and put your money where your mouth is…LOL?

"Something tells me your not gonna put your money where your mouth is because you know as well as I do that both of those countries really suck. What makes you think it would be any different here?"

Now you obviously love America, but I feel you are confused about what we truly are. We are a democracy. Where in the constitution does it state what type of economic system we should operate under? Does it state that if there is a better way, we should stick our heads in the sand and ignore it and pound our chests and say we're better, we're American's? Are we to believe that we have no room for improvement? Many Democratic Capitalistic countries have seen a better way and have adopted universal healthcare a socialist style system. They saw a better way and they have the health metrics and cost metrics that prove they are kicking our a@# in this area.

"GOD BLESS AMERICA!!"

Now if we are to stick our heads in the sand like you propose, believing we are doing it right when all the measurements of economic health indicate we are doing it wrong, then your request for God to bless us will truly be needed.

John-790813, your manners, whether developed in socialism or capitalism are wanting. Why does socialist Germany or Switzerland have a trade surplus and competitive economic metrics that indicate they do just fine when compared to the U.S. on a per capita basis? Did you move because you could not function at a high level in that society? How do you know the drunk is lazy? I know some people who drink and they are highly productive people. I know a heavy drinker that built his own custom home, makes custom cabinets, furniture, and does mechanical repairs on his automobiles, motorhome, tractor, and other machinery, all highly productive endeavors. In fact, I know if this person lived in a more socialist country or system his productivity would not fall off nor would his drinking diminish, unless he decided to change that habit.

You seem confused about socialism. There are many different ways to engineer socialist programs, they are not static. Where do you get the idea that resources are equally distributed in a socialist economic system. That is more descriptive of Communism. Highly productive, educated people do better in socialist systems than do lesser productive and educated people. Socialism provides for a mutually agreed upon minimum level of support for the less fortunate. Yes there are those who will cheat the system, but you'll always have them regardless of the system. What the difference with them and a corporation that lobbies to get free tax payer funds to compete in business? You need to wake up to the fact that if we are to survive as a country we will need to be flexible in our thinking as it relates to our economic system and how we want it to work. Constant assessment and improvement should be the goal, not dogmatic dedication to a highly flawed system needing numerous improvements.

EXACTLY!!! Hopefully more people will wake up to reality.

I don't think there is any economic or governing system that has or will ever exist that will ever work properly and fairly as long as love of money and power over others exists in the hearts and minds of men. Our founding fathers tried and it was thwarted and corrupted by those who would deem themselves more capable, worthy and inteligent than the rest of society. Why do you think the owners have workers believing their wages are taxable? The owners (rich) have duped workers into believing that they are merely indentured servants paying off a debt to society. What a crock. Makes me sick to think about what the rich get away with while workers toil and struggle and hope to achieve their freedom. If workers really knew the truth about capitalism and taxation and corruption of the government there would be a revolt unseen since the French revolution. The richest 1% would be running to underground bunkers and private islands to avoid having their heads hung on a pike in the square as a warning to those who would take more than they earned or earned it by using or abusing others. All the brainwashing of the "american dream" has made people complacent to be indentured servants working to make someone else rich while tolerating and embracing abuse and injustice. Now we're seeing the insane inequity in the accumulation of wealth by the rich and people are starting to get pissed off. Yay, finally, about freakin time!!! The masses are waking up to the fact their being scammed and now we can see some real change happen. It's a great time to be alive things are getting exciting and I hope I can be a part of that history, will you be too? or will you fight for the richest's right to get richer?

I think you are right Steve about 2010. Or even 2011, but this has been building for a long time, and it's not going to be over overnight.  If the Bush Administration had been dealing with the problem, instead of denying all along that there was a problem, Maybe we could be halfway through it by now.  But, I think Big three going under, which they will probably do anyway, will be a good thing. Maybe we can get Auto prices back down where someone other than a $74.00 hr. wage earner can afford one.

That was more communism- socialism works in most European countries today - France, the UK etc.  and it is part of the necessary growth of a country. 

Communism and Socialism are not the same. What you are talking about are dictatorships (the political system) that followed a communist type of economic system. Socialist economic systems exist within democracies all over the world. ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Socialist programs already exist in the USA and have for longer than you have been alive. Here are some examples of SOCIALIST programs...

Police Departments
Fire Departments MILITARY (yeah, the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines & Coast Guard)
Public Schools
Public Universities
Roads and Highways
Streetlights
Dams and other hydroelectric projects
Nuclear Power Plants
among others...

You clearly cannot have pure capitalism any more than you can have communism, they are both destined to fail. The part of communism that scared Americans wasn't necessarily the socialist part, but rather that dictatorship part, however it was so muddied up by propaganda and the usual fearmongering that goes on in this country that the average American doesn't know enough to even comment. The important thing to get is that socialism isn't a political system, it's an economic system, and it can exist fairly well within a democracy.

Not Correct. Socializm has and is being practiced successfully in various countries such as Sweden, France, Great Britian, Canada, Austriala, New Zealand and more. In most cases, it is a mix with free enterprise. The countries you mention are communist countries, far different than socialist countries. Politicis is not a strait line having a right end and a left end. It is ciricle. Move too far to the right you end up with a dictatorship, much the same as a large corporation. ( or communism)    

The problem with many people is that they do not understand the difference between communism and socialism.

Watch the next war.....There will be nothing left of this planet, so don't worry about jobs!

Oh god, your dramatics make me laugh! :)

so it is just the Republicans that should be taxed, thats quite an answer our problems.  I am sure no Democrat made any money during this past eight years.  Maybe thats why Blagovich and Obama need to sell his Senate seat

Daniel Kessler-as much as I disliked the Repukes of 2000-2008 I would never say it was their fault alone that we are in this mess - Dems had a hand in this too - remember Clinton 8 years of him and all he did was balance the budget. He was as crooked as they come -forget about his indiscretions - his and Hillary's lies were at the crux of the matter. We avoided two wars - yeah - by the skin of our teeth when he was alert in the white house. There is no longer a 2 party system in the US - we now have the NEW WORLD ORDER and that consists of 1 party - even though they are still separated they are definately sleeping together. And away we go...!

Are u kidding me??  Democrats in Congress have been running the show over the past years..what are you talking about?  Do you really think the "Prez" is doing all this..he only picks cabinet, they run the show..he can only veto..

Democrats have not been running the show for the past years...wake up and read more...and quit listening to Rush and his ilk.

David

funny, all you repubs need to lighten up!!

Trickle down economics, a term created in the Reagan years, did not work. We had a boom due to deregulation, and then a crash.

You advice only applies to corporation executives. It does not apply to workers and small businesses. BTW, the problem is much bigger than just that.

Dear friend,

I do agree with you 100%. Our President-elect Barack Obama is well aware of this fact, he will put all on the line to protect our economy and our jobs.

I see hope with Obama coming into office. It sure can't be worse than Bush/Cheney! It's not going to be a quick or easy fix and we're going to go thru a difficult time to come.  As far as the US auto industry and the bailout they are getting, actually that's a loan and I'm sure it will be repaid in full. If we lose the auto industry, we've lost the remaining manufacturing sector and the repercussions would be unimaginable. There's nothing inherently wrong with imports and choice, but at the rate Americans buy imported vehicles, loss of our jobs, houses and futuresis inevitable. Even if the cars are made in a plant in the US, ultimately the profits still go back to Japan and Korea. It doesn't help the US stock market and we are buying our own demise by our choices we make.

I was in the US Army (Active Duty) for 15 years and I did a tour of duty in Korea. You see all these Hyundai's and Kia's all over the place here, but you won't see an American car in Korea, besides a service member's car. When I was there, the big 3 were trying to break into the Korean car market. They'd literally almost give away their best vehicles for like the US equivalent of 38 cents or the like to influentual members of Korea's government!!!! What happened? Well the police would stop them and not only harrass them, but even strip searched them! Or their version of their IRS would audit them. Extremely protective country!!!!

Now Korea is not a wealthy country and one could not expect them to buy our most expensive products, or import as much as they export in dollars, but they can still buy a lot of American products. Hyundai opened a huge auto manufacturing plant in Alabama, but it's filled with ulterior motives. For one they opened it in an area that was hurting for jobs, but they took advantage of them, paying way less than union wages. They are only assembling autos there from parts shipped directly from Korea. At least the Japanese auto manufacturers locally source some parts, but again with Hyundai, nothing is bought from America.

This isn't some personal resentment I have against Korea or Koreans. Obama specifically brought up Korea and their auto mfg industry; whether in Korea or in Alabama, during the last/3rd Presidential debate. I met a lot of nice Koreans during my tour of duty there. As a society though, they are brought up as a "Me, Me, Me" society because of their being occupied by so many other countries over hundreds of years. That's understandable, but unacceptable regarding trade with them. This definately is nowhere near "Free Trade!!!!"

So our choices as consumers are part of the problem. Think about this if you own a Honda, Toyota, Hyundai or the like. On a much larger problem than Japanese or Korean imports are the overwhelming imports from China. Our lawmakes have made it a free-for-all. Sure, they're cheaper, but we're giving our jobs away and factory towns across America are closing down left and right. It's difficult, sometimes nearly impossible to avoid purchasing Chinese imports, but at least we still have a choice with American cars. Think about the consequences the next time you buy a new car.

I worked at Earthlink for a year back in 2003 and they decided to close all their US call centers and outsource them overseas, primarily to India. There are numerous Indians here in the US on H1-B visas working in the computer departments of companies. I don't blame the Indians, but it's immoral for the companies that hire them (you ought to see how many Microsoft has!!!!) that take advantage of them. They'd pay the Indians 30-40 grand a year for what they'd pay an American (computer programmer, for an example) 80 grand. Same thing in the medical and other fields.

So now most everything is made in China and if you have to call someone for support, it's usually someone from India. Same thing in many companies computer departments, doctors offices and the like.

We're giving our jobs and future away!!! Can't anybody else see this?

Eventually you'll see the "Made in USA" stickers with "ROC" below in smaller letters, as we'll be a Chinese colony.

Then there's the super-wealthy that find ways to hide income from taxes by depositing it in places like the Cayman islands. That just means more taxes that everybody else has to pay.

No thanks to Socialism. Ask Hitler how that worked. Capitalism and the US is still the best. Immoral people and company policies does not mean that we need to change to a Communist-style system. Yes, Socialism falls directly in line with Communism and stop trying to compare Europe. They're still capitalists, as there are individuals that own companies, vs the "State." PS: China is Communist!!!!

Yes, Obama has his work cut out for him, but he's our hope for saving America and after Bush/Cheney, it's refreshing!

listen Ted - IT CAN BE WORSE and it is.

• Ted, for the record, that is not a loan. It becomes a loan only IF GM and Chrysler don't come up with a viable plan for restructuring by Feb.   If they don't, then they have to pay back the money, which is BULL, because it will be spent on their bonuses and they will be back for more. They won't have the money to pay it back. And they THINK they are so big, that the Gov. will GIVE them more money because we can't allow them to go under. Well, I have news for them. Mr. Obama has already told them the American people are getting fed up so they had better get their sh*t in gear.        As for Toyota, Honda, and other foreign  cars, they are employing  Americans, So, they are paying Americans, the Execs. live in America, so they are spending their money, or a big amount of it, in America.        So what is the problem?   They gave The Big Three competition, And the Big Three couldn't keep up, so they lost.    So they can get over it.  I too think Obama is going to do a lot for our country. But it is going to take time, and , things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. 

Ted I own a Honda because the last American car I purchased (Plymouth) was a piece of crap, if the big three made a product that was worth the price then maybe I'd buy it. Bevos is right the B3 didn't have a successful business model, and got killed by their inability to compete. The concessions to union members, fantastic wages, healthy pensions, and crazy healthcare costs did them in. Don't get me wrong I think workers should get paid a fair and reasonable wage and have health and retirement benefits but failure to control the costs of those parts, and not having an affordable product that meets the needs of the masses, is leading to the loss of the whole.  

Very incisive comments. I'm sure most Americans never heard of the Bilderberg Group; and this is just what the Group wants.

ah-the bilderberg group - yeah.

Ah yes...I am sure the Trilateral commission and the ZOG are involved as well.

Give me a break.

The problem in the Soviet Union wasn't socialism, it was the dictatorship. There's a difference between a country's economic system and their political system.

Here's a great website that has a nice interactive widget that can help you understand the political/economic spectrum and where the US currently (attempts) fits in comparison to other countries. It isn't just a question of communism or capitalism, as you seem to think. And communism isn't about taking resources from the rich and spreading it around either... (or that the rich can keep money from disappearing in a capitalist system either, but that's really besides the point)

http://www.blackgold.ab.ca/ict/Division4/Social/Political%20Spectrum/index.htm

IMO, pure capitalism has about as much a chance of success as communism did. In the middle, somewhere, is the most sustainable economic system that humans are capable of. There will always be zealots for both extremes... those with common sense know that you can't expect someone to share everything any more than you can expect them to act with others in mind if they are not forced to.

IMO, pure capitalism has about as much a chance of success as communism did. In the middle, somewhere, is the most sustainable economic system that humans are capable of. There will always be zealots for both extremes... those with common sense know that you can't expect someone to share everything any more than you can expect them to act with others in mind if they are not forced to.

Hey.. did you read your own last sentence?

You are implying that those with "common sense" should be coerce altruism from people because they are not capable of being altruistic themselves. Wow. You have a bleak outlook on things. Are you sure YOU have Common Sense? It seems to be that you hardly understand your own language.

The most sustainable economic system IS free-market capitalism.

Period. End of story.

However, there one particular correction would be ideal and it is this: Corporations have the same rights under the law in this nation as a living, breathing human being.

You want to limit corporate power? You want to restore Main Street? Take away the corporation's rights. Change the laws. Then, get a group of people together, and clear out all their crap merchandise, and put new, quality American businesses in there.

But most of you out there are too LAZY for something like that or too COOL or too busy playing video games.

Here is a WISE quotation for you:

"Most men aren't against you. They are for themselves."

It has become acceptable in America to be a victim. Everyone is a victim. The women are victims of men. The blacks are victims of whites. The white are victims of Obama.

Here is a simple rule, for whenever you start to whine and get confused and begin pointing your fingers at anyone other than yourself.

"When you point a finger, three point back at you."

You think that is so BY ACCIDENT?

Try it. Point your index finger at something or someone. Then, look at your hand. See?

America is capitalistic and mercantalistic. This is the way it was, is, and always will be.

This "sustainability" crap is as much of a nonsensical fad as political correctness is.

You people and your "-isms" and your "-abilities".

Ya know... all those words you MAKE UP and ADD to the ENGLISH language are simply ways to avoid personal responsibility and blame others for your difficult life situation at the end of the day.

Who do you think your fooling? Not me.

Grab your bootstraps and pull yourself up, America.

Black, white, male, female, red purple, yellow.

Here's the harsh reality: NO ONE IS GOING TO DO IT FOR YOU. EVER.

I am 30 on my next birthday, and I am economically successful.

Listen, I KNOW that people in MY GENERATION are TOUGHER than THIS!

STOP WHINING, PUT DOWN THE XBOX 360 CONTROLLER! WORLD OF WARCRAFT CAN WAIT!

Get up, go outside, and start beating the streets for a job.

Get together with friends, plan some kind of business.

Use government grants. Use anything you can to get yourself UP and ON YOUR FEET.

I was homeless earlier this year. HOMELESS! Now, I am one of four partners in a deal to fund an ethanol refinery, among other projects.

No, I am not interested in YOUR personal opinion about ethanol. I have expert analysts, but thanks, though. You're probably not one of them.

Listen, America.... this is the best part of the story:

The chips are down. Winter is cold. Economy looks rough. People all around are moaning and wailing and complaining and scared for all kinds of reasons.

Hey, I get scared too, sometimes.

I was scared when I was sleeping alone, in New Orleans, with no where to go and no one to really talk to.

It is HARD to be scared. All that stress...

It is EASY to open your eyes, set your jaw, dig way down deep into your guts, and find the DETERMINATION you need.

It's in there somewhere, don't worry.

But think of it this way: This is the part of the story where some of us get to jump up and be HEROES.

Not everyone gets a chance like this in their lifetime... to really do something heroic.

The War in Iraq? Heroic? Please.

Saving your nations economy by starting your own business, large or small? Heroic? Yep.

So, Merry Christmas, America. Happy New Year.

Restore your FAITH in yourself, and you will RESTORE your FAITH in EACH OTHER.

God Bless.

Hey -- you using coal to power that ethanol refinery?  What a good little capitalist.  I can see why you're so full of yourself.  I suppose we should start lining them retarded folks and disabled Americans right up against a wall and shoot 'em all.  Not everyone has your abilities.  I say burn all the money and make our world a better place by schooling everyone to their max, and let them fulfill whatever promise they have.  I say close down Wall St. and give everyone what they need to survive with the obligation of doing what they can in return.  I say burn down all those mansions and level the playing field for all Americans.  No more servants, honey -- wipe your own arse.

Yeah when Approachinginfinity1 goes to market let him have to sell at the lower new prices dictated to him from the squash of Deflation.  Pride seems to have settled in on you for your hard work and dedication.  Your still just one hearbeat away from loosing it all if its all for yourself.  Remeber whom gave you what you have and to Him all things were made and provided for you because you asked.