Log In | Register
Newsvine is msnbc.com's social-news community where you can discuss stories, publish your own column, and connect with other news lovers.
Newsvine Discussion with 104 comments - Click here to jump to the comment form.
{"canLink":false,"threadId":"493353","isPrivate":false}
You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |
As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
At my jobsite we have a great Divison Manager. She has truly been a godsend after all these years. We've had good managers and bad ones but shes great. The atmosphere has been that if we are going to say something thats not professional like joke around and use profanity to make sure the office door is closed so other people(users) cannot hear us. So we do on occasion have loud humorous content and use some profanity here and there(and other such supposedly non appropriate talk). This allows people to air out. But when the door opens and we are working with the public/people/users its all professional and none of that stuff is allowed.
Of course we dont allow it out of anger or for personal attacks no matter what.
IMO, it's never "acceptable." I remember hearing once that profanity is relied upon by those who do not have the vocabulary to express themselves otherwise. It's always stuck with me and it's so very true. There is always a non-profane way to communicate what you want to say with the appropriate intensity when necessary.
That being said, cuss words do occasionally slip out of my mouth during the course of my personal life. But I'm very aware of it and realize that, even there, it's not okay.
"profanity is relied upon by those who do not have the vocabulary to express themselves otherwise"
My father used to say that too. There is a good bit of profanity at my workplace, but this is a mine site so no one really notices as long as it is not directed at someone. I refer to it as "work related tourette's". It is usually directed at a computer, piece of machinery, or at yourself for the smacked /cut finger etc... _____— Computer, _______truck, the _____— won't _____— work, piece of monkee______, and so on. Other places I have worked much of the time dealt with the public, so cursing was a big no no, but even there in the back offices it was quite frequently used.
I agree fully that an obsessive expletive user has too small a vocabulary to express his/her self properly. But there are moments when a well placed profanity is the most humorous way to make a point. I prefer to be critical in cold choppy sentences which simply state the damning facts. It's so much more effective and as soon as you cuss in anger you become "wrong". So at work I would be very very hesitant to use expletive. I know people who cuss like sailors in high places where I work and they seem to get away with it, but they are invariably derided behind thier backs and when it is possible to get them with the old passive aggression they often find themselves got.
I believe the quote you are refering to is this one:
Unless your job is selling profanity, it has no place in the workplace. :)
People slip every now and then, and thats ok - you let it go - but it shouldnt be acceptable in general.
I think if you don't let space for people to vent or breath out what they are burning inside to say it can be very suffocating and oppressive and it can become fertile grounds for corruption because nobody's allowed to denounce anything.
On the other side some people are very sneeky and use profanity for bad leadership, that should never be allowed because it undermines some peoples will to work, efforts and talents, it can even cause workers to undergo depression in some cases and you are not being of service to the compagnie when you undermining it's growth by belittling others.
Well, if I need to vent, I walk down the hall, or walk outside for 5 minutes...that usually does the trick.
Its important to manage your stress levels as a professional so you don't let yourself get into these situations where your need to vent is greater than your need to treat others with respect.
As a Bank Manager, I'd tend to see many times customers ranting on with my employees and not once did they reply but their faces sure had a message to say...
That's when I instigated my "swear bucket"; I had an old metal garbage can beside my desk & anyone who needed to vent could pick it up & go over to the conference room, (which was soundproof & most of the time empty) and dish out all they needed...
Rest assured that it was used quite often but all of my employees thought that it was one heck of a great idea!!
At my office cursing was de rigeur and when you wanted to belittle someone the torrents of abuse would prevail as though it were Niagara Falls. It was/is a toxic environment. When I questioned one individual why he tolerated the verbal abuse the way he did he replied that that was why he got paid so well. I ended up leaving but since that job I myself now respond with expletives when I am frustrated or angry. I may have been paid well but the scars are still with me. Yes, I am a sensitive soul but we're all human beings made of clay and not of tempered titanium.
I believe that swearing as shown by Bale is destructive. It shows the need for emotional purging but at great cost to the people involved.
I hear you Alex, but I still LOVE my Christian Bale.
He's awesome!!!!
I've seen multiple people give him a pass because he's good at what he does.
The world is full of people who are very good at what they do, but that does not give them the right to treat others like garbage. It all goes back to treating others as you'd like to be treated, but unfortunately, this is no longer being taught in schools, and even more unfortunately, it isnt being taught at home either.
He was working on a scene from Terminator 4 "Salvation".
The end of the world crap... There is a whole lot of emotion to build up... only to have someone who lacks a work ethic screw it up for you...
granted he went a bit too far... but I got to tell you people who fart around on the job irritate me as well.
It is unprofessional and inappropriate in all cases. I don't care what your pressures are, you keep your profanity to yourself. It really crosses a line that no one should cross. The way I was brought up is, it one step from violence in more cases than not. The raised voice and aggressive stances that come from it create the fight or flight response in the receiver. Is that what the person is looking for? Seems Bale was, he feels confident that the other person can't physically harm him so he like the A-hole he seems to be forced the situation going for the humiliation of the other as a way to make himself feel superior. I would have been much more aggressive with him (fight), making it clear he needs to act like a professional in his anger. If he was a professional and not just a prima-dona he would have focused dispite the distraction and then pulled the guy aside afterwards and expressed calmly that it is disturbing to have someone walk across the set when trying to do a scene. Bale has no excuse for his poor behavior, and I will probably skip his movie. I don't need to support a d*ck like him.
I completely agree with you that cursing is never appropriate. (I wrote comment #2)
I do, however, want to point out that it's my understanding that CB did mention to the lighting guy several times, in a more appropriate way, that his actions were distracting and the guy kept doing it anyway. IMO, the director, or whoever takes care of these kind of things on the movie set, should've been more attentive and stepped in to correct the lighting guy before it ever got this far. It doesn't excuse CB's actions, but may help to explain them a bit more.
I work with truck drivers and construction workers. Yeah, creative swearing is the norm and I really do not mind it one way or the other. No one tries to tear down anyone else with it. There are no fits of rage or lashing out in anger. We all work together to get the work done in a safe and efficient manner and if we curse and make others laugh - no harm - no foul. I have laughed so hard at least once a week from these guys that tears stream down my face and my belly feels like it will explode. That makes for an awesome work environment!!!!! The only rule at my work place is that everyone is treated like family and we all do what we can to help each other out without hurting each other or the bottom line.
I've had jobs elsewhere and dealt with abusive, manipulating, idiots who cursed only because it made them feel superior and it is not worth it, life is too short. I told them to where they can put their job in a manner befitting the treatment I received (references be damned) and it made my life all the better.
Suck it.....when you work with professionals that are just a few IQ points shy of a raccoon, and or they just don't care, you'll hear it from me. I work my A$$ off as a lead person, and people are at least smart enough to know when they are playing you.
If your ears are so heavenly divine, become a monk! Get real, there is a job to do and if something that has been gone over a hundred times, and gets screwed up. Nope life does not have virgin ears, it's all about the timing. I do not abuse people, I do not belittle people, and I GET THE JOB DONE RIGHT, AND PEOPLE KNOW NOT TO MESS WITH ME OR THE WORK. BITE IT.
hahaha I agree with you!! Some people need a little kick in the behind to get the work done right.
Are you so primitive you can't get you ideas across without insulting language. Seems really low class.
This following is being said to help, not hurt, so please take it strictly as my opinion, and it should in no way be seen to be combative or deragatory.
To me, you sound burned out - you need to have a career change, or at least, a job change. If you REALLY feel that way, you should move on. It would help you, the others you leave, and the ones at home who end up dealing with your leftover anger.
I don't appreciate extremely use of leadership though, there is a line, even if you claim you don't abuse of anyone maybe you do and you don't even realise it. And you really should because one day it'll come back at you, it always does.
When is cursing ever acceptable, I think it is tolerated, but never acceptable. Whether it be casting curses upon people, or denigrating a fellow human. I've have never seen anything positive come from it.
We all need try and eliminate some words from our vocabularies.
Don
It's never ever acceptable, especially in a professional office workplace! If you choose to use such language fine, but keep it to yourself or your closest friends. It us unprofessional and offensive. When I am in a meeting or even in my cubicle and I have to listen to the swearing of others I find it offensive. Go into your office and shut the door, use your cell phone in a hallway, outdoors, or out of the earshot of others. Cursing in an office setting (even if its a working lunch or dinner) is never OK. It is disrespectful of the feelings of others. If you have nothing decent to say, zip it!
yes its unprofessional and and inappropriate but so are office romances, stilettos, religion but it doesnt stop people from doing it at work. As long as people are allowed to walk around and "Praise God" (or whomever they praise) at work, and have sex with their bosses, then cursing shouldn't create any great moral conflict either. I think people should learn to mind their business at work and stop trying to regulate what others do. Worry about you and everything else will take care of itself.
Very wise words! thanks!
AMEN!
corporateho - you are obviously a liberal as you always compare mole hills with mountains in an attempt to validate your own beliefs. If you cant see the difference between those points you mentioned, then I thank you for voting for Obama... :P
I am not aware of any regulations that apply to the situations you describe, with the possible exceptions of stillettos for safety reasons, but only in certain work environments, and sleeping with your boss, but only if it causes him/her to treat you favorably over other employees.
It's a matter of treating colleagues with dignity and respect. What's right is right, even if no one is doing it and what's wrong is wrong, even if everybody is doing it.
On a side note, I consider myself pretty liberal and I certainly see the difference. It's unfair to make such generalizations.
Why should people who have learned decency be subjected to profanity? Many have left factory jobs in search of a suitable environment to keep their minds out of the gutter. I know an excellent worker who will change jobs in a heartbeat when she can get one -- primarily to get away from that kind of language all day. People should not have to do that. Interestingly, Christians are not allowed to talk about God or Jesus in the work place, but profanity, an expression of irreligion, is allowed. Further, status gives a boss a bully pulpit to get workers in line; he/she doesn't need to show a vulgar heart in order to get a subordinate to do the job the way he/she wants it done.
I am truly amazed at the increasing disdain many people have for the language they use around others. It has nothing to do with "virgin" ears, as one person insinuated, but it does have to do with education and intellect. I can and have, when necessary, verbally cut someone to pieces before they even knew they were bleeding without using any words unacceptable in "polite" society. My point is made and my displeasure is heard but I am not insulting or cruel. Also, I don't have to worry about who hears me or if I am later quoted. The English language is loaded with wonderful words and a good education coupled with a quick mind can make a razor-sharp point without using any words from the nearest bathroom wall.
I'm honestly not sure your method is less harmful than using swear words, there is a malice that can be infiltrated in your message with no use whatsoever of any cursing, so don't take for granted you are handling the situation better just because you are following the rules of "polite" society, that cover up doesn't always work when confronted with the truth of the situation
There is a difference between expressing yourself and your ideas and doing the same thing through verbal abuse. There is never a place for verbal abuse but at times serious professional conversations have to happen that may leave the recipiant feeling dressed down.
LOL-- WTF??? Some of the most educated and intellegent people I know drop the F-bomb or other miscellaneous "inappropriate" words. Appropriateness depends on your work environment, colleagues, the situation, etc, etc. As a college educator, sure, I'll cuss in private conversations with friendly colleagues; however, I will not in the classroom, professional situations, etc. I've sat through some very long and frustrating meetings where someone has let a cuss word slip, and believe me-- I was feeling the same way. Was I offended?? No way! It made us laugh and lightened a tense, frustrating situation. It's like anything else in life-- there's a time and a place for it-- use your discretion and don't overdo it. Cussing doesn't make one less intellegent or educated-- just more human!
I agree absolutely that there is never a time or place for verbal abuse of anyone. I should have said that I can verbally cut someone's words or actions to pieces, when necessary. I always maintain courtesy and respect for the individual, even when that has not been extended to me.
It always makes me feel more at ease when I hear someone (especially a superior) use casual profanity. It means to me that the environment is relaxed and you don't have to walk on eggshells in regards to what you say or how you express yourself.
Very good point!
My father was this way and even though he could put 'the fear' in you just by looking at you, we all were in that comfortable zone to which you refer.
You shouldn't be "expressing" yourself you should be working. And... if you are working there really shouldn't be a need to use profanity.
Some jobs actually require you to think and communicate with others.
REALLY - oh my goodness - why didn't I think of that.
Of course people are required to "think and communicate." But if you are thinking and communicating about WORK - as you should be - there should not be a need for profanity.
Even a deep thinker like you should be able to understand that.
In my opinion, the bigger problem is that most "Professionals" had to sit through English classes every day for at least 12 years, if not longer, and STILL cannot write grammatically correct sentences. 60% of all business correspondences are sent containing one or more grammar or spelling errors, 32% of writers are failing to use all the words needed for a grammatically correct sentence. 28% of mistakes relate to punctuation, that is, not knowing when to use a period, comma or question mark. 8% have sentences with complete disagreement between subject and verb.
Which would you rather hear or read at your office:
Personally, I find if people can actually speak and write intelligently, they tend to be comfortable enough to curse casually themselves, or hear a curse word, without it short-circuiting their sense of decency.
Additionally, 75% of hiring managers said it was worse for an applicant to have a spelling or grammar error on his application than for him to show up late or—get this—swear during an interview.
Show me the full data on those percentages that you're spouting. I'm guessing its about 98.234% likely you're pulling them out of your back pocket...lol!
I admit to cursing when I am completely alone, but never do so in public. I work in an office now where the F word is used as a normal part of all but one other person's vocabulary so I have really had to increase my tolerance. That word is probably the one I detest the most and I admit I still cringe whenever I hear it used. As a former supervisor, people knew not to use cursing as a form of communication, at least not within my hearing.
I like an aggresive work culture where swearing is acceptable.....it's effective in making your point and getting attention
Getting attention???? If you want attention, do a good job. If doing a good job doesnt give you the attention you so obviously require, move on to another job who will.
The use of foul language has become so common place in today's world that I believe people don't even realize they are using it. It appalls me when I hear young people's language peppered with profanity in a casual conversation. It is tiresome to hear MF this, F that, every other word. I agree it shows disrespect and lack of imagination. I use to have a boss who denigrated individuals constantly and when she (yes, she) turned her vituperative language on me, I would say "let's discuss this when we are both calmer". It would set her off even more and I would walk away. Fortunately she was later fired when she talked like that to the CEO. Bad language should never be used in public or in the workplace. FYI, I've been known to swear a blue streak when I hit my finger with a hammer, or say "F*&! 'em" in a private conversation, but try to restrain myself. I think allowing foul language in movies and television has encouraged the use of bad language. Perhaps I'm just old fashioned.
Yes, I will agree.
In the workplace, if someone uses foul language in regular conversation and they aren't even angry, that is UGLY.
Swearing at another subordinate is never acceptable. A boss can berate and discipline a subordinate, but insulting and intimating him or her does not motivate, earn respect or willing cooperation.
There's a difference between cursing and degrading someone publicly. I'm not above dropping an "f-bomb" on occasion, but I never do it in a professional situation, and I would never do it to belittle someone. Plus, I agree with posters who have said that there are always better words to use than curse words.
Where I work now, the quickest way to get yourself fired is to chew someone out, regardless of the words you use. On the other hand, I once worked at a place where the boss had an explosive temper, and who once tore into someone so bad that I literally had my hand on the phone ready to dial 911. Yet he NEVER said one curse word!
In the end, the issue is less political correctness and vocabulary than simple respect. If you respect your co-workers, subordinates and customers, you'll watch your language and speak to them in a way that gets your point across without humiliating them.
Jim...how is it effective on making your point, although, I will admit it DOES get people's attention. With me, it turns my listening off and I have walked out on more than one meeting with supervisors. I just don't believe that cursing in normal conversation is appropriate. I understand people get mad, or frustrated, and things slip. What gets me is those who aren't embarrassed when it happens...I thnk of it as common courtesy. OK, an oxymoron..we won't go there :)