Which generation is suffering most in this downturn?

Capitalism rewards the ruthless and the selfish and places them in positions of power. Until some morality and ethics are an integral part of our financial system this cycle will continue. My standard of living has fallen way off in the last year. It was through no fault of my own. We cannot trust the capitalists with our money. We blindly supported a system that allowed global financial collapse. As the world's population continues to grow we need to find a way where the lives of all people can have quality and dignity. Anytime that maximizing a profit is involved people somewhere suffer or die as a result of it. Although my standard of living has suffered, it pales in comparison to people in third world nations.

Teri 881232- give it a rest!! Have you paid attention to the last 20 years of deregulation???? Electic utilities - deregulated - much higher prices to all, cable - deregulated monthly fees from $17. or so a month to like $50.00. the banking industry - deregulated - have pretty much brought the world economy to the brink of destruction.

And for the record I know the definition of socialism. and I don't deny we are running in that direction right now............ where have you been Teri881232??

Where have you been, and who are you naive enough to believe? Deregulation of utilities and businesses in general result in lower costs to the consumer. The increased costs to you and I are due to REGULATIONS STUPID! All the cap 'n trade, and wacho environmentism, and hidden taxes on services, (which when adjusted for inflation are nil). Amont the almost 9000 earmarks Obama so cheerfully signed into law to press forward his agenda, are provisions to tax utilities, energy companies, and virtually every business in the US. Run the figures, the OBM projects this will cost each household a minimum of $1,300 per year. That's more than $100 a month. Thank You. That's on top of the trillions, (which aren't even in existence), as far as the eye can see. Sorry, those with wisdom can't give it a rest, while apologists for Obama are as oblivious as his other court jesters. No wonder ya'll don't think things are bad. Real Change, Hey!

Addendum: What is meant by nil is the cost of business adjusted is about the same, the hidden taxes, fees, emissions fees, etc., are all passed on to us causing the cost increases.

You wouldn't overspend your own pocketbook so why are Democrats so hell bent on spending every tax dollar in sight?

One of the things that marks the difference between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives use an inadequate metaphor by trying to compare government to a business or a household. It is neither. It is the public acting through its representatives (well or not) for a group assertion of what is best for the public at large. Doing it through a representative system gives it some sluggishness, which is why the majority has not already stripped every Wall Street banker of their last dollar and sent them to live on a desert island. The sluggishness protects the minority from at least some abuse.

Maybe I wouldn't outspend my own pocketbook. But if my child had a medical emergency I would sure be willing to put myself in hock to fix the problem.

The problem right now is that there is a shortage of demand for products. Consumers are not spending out of fear of the future. Banks aren't extending credit due to fear of collapse. Companies aren't able to get credit to make payroll or maintain production. When neighbors are laid off that generates even more pocketbook reaction in the public and the cycle spirals. No one has used the D-word for deflation recently but you can already see signs of it, especially on "luxury products." If you're not getting twice as many discount offers from places like TigerDirect in your email you should probably be checking your junk files.

So if the public won't spend money and business can't, what entity is out there to stoke the fires of commerce? Oh, yeah. Government. A sudden burst of money into the economy so that people are put back to work, companies start selling again, carpenters start framing houses, new roads are built for new neighborhoods. All this generates highter tax revenues and what looked to be a catostrophic deficit suddenly begins disappearing. Government gradually withdraws from the picture and things go back to whatever we're using for normal.

Sorry to be so basic but ... well, it's evidently needed. And just remember, a good third of the giant deficit was thanks to the Iraq War, which was basically hidden from public view by not being included in the general government accounting figures. The budget suddenly LOOKED one-third larger due to transparency in accounting in just one day.

Hey Teri, where's your memory? This crap was started by your boy, Bush, and Obama is being hogtied by the Republicans. Hope you enjoy your grand old party.

It is the Boomer's fault because of the sense of entitlement and they pushed the ideals on the younger generations.

teri--- you have absolutely no clue about what is happening in the country, nor even the nonsense you are spewing out of your mouth.

Just like Billy Madison, "We are all now dumber because of you".

Stop whining. Recessions are a part of life. There are normally about 12 in a person's lifetime.

In good times people should save 10% to 15% of their money each year for the bad times. After a 7 year expansion, at least a years pay will be in the bank.

The economy will eventually recover, and guess what; there will be a recession seven years after the recovery. (Some other poor fool President will be blamed for what is natural!) This will go on forever and ever until the eventual collapse of the United States due to the growth of the central government.

Concerning the recovery, it will be low and slow due to the policies of the new President. I have survived bad policies before by being careful so for the foreseeable future I will park my money (no risks) and not hire employees. (Sub-contractors are more helpful than employees in tax evasion during any new cycle of increasing taxes.) (We can't end the drug problem so what makes anyone think that anyone can regulate economic activity between two consenting adults.)

When the new regulation era ends and we go back to deregulation, I will clean up again!

Taxes cut in the 60s, raised in the 70s, cut in the 80s, raised in the 90s, cut in the 00s, raised in the 10s......BLAH BLAH BLAH

We have to work around the mob racy that elects the fool of the moment.

Always be positive as this is not the end of history.

To be continued!

Where have you been, and who are you naive enough to believe? Deregulation of utilities and businesses in general result in lower costs to the consumer. The increased costs to you and I are due to REGULATIONS STUPID!

Sorry to burst your bubble Teri, but it wasn't regulation that allow energy traders to conspire to screw "grandma Millie' out of her money here is California. It was an unregulated energy market.

Ha Ha, you said "Poop"... nice.

I didn't either, but guess who just lost her job last week? It pisses me off that some greedy @$$hole decided to make money by giving people houses they could not afford and giving them credit cards like water. And I have to pay because of it. My company went out of business because of this crap. ( Hint- if you're making $35K a year, you will NEVER be able to afford a $450K house) I can't even afford to buy food on many occasions because I have to pay $240 a month for my COBRA healthcare and rent. I can't go on Food Stamps because my Unemployment Check is too high. I can't win.

My parents were what they call the "Silent Generation" ( teenagers and 20 somethings in the 50's) They always told me that if I worked hard and was reliable, I would prosper.Needless to say, I worked very hard and got a Summa Cum Laude degree in Communications, and I started work in the television journalism field at 18. I have worked hard all my life and it has gotten me nowhere.I hate to say it, but they were so erroneous in that assumption. Today it seems that the more corrupt and dishonest you are, the more you have.

Just got a rejection letter today from Marriott telling me I was too "overqualified" for a front desk job. I send out resumes CONSTANTLY and never get a reply.

Oh and If you want to blame Obama, do it somewhere else. Bush knew about the housing instability LONG before the bottom fell out.

Bush, Sununu and McCain sounded the alarm back in 2005 -- Pelosi et al wouldn't hear a word of it

That's interesting, because Pelosi didn't even become Speaker until November 2007. Up until then the Republicans ran the whole show. Up until then she was House Minority Leader and had about as much bang in Congress as John Boehner does today.

The Dems filibustered the whole issue of Fannie and Freddie to death. Barney Frank aggressively thwarted reform attempts by Bush. Frank said, ""these two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis." Bush warned of "systemic risk for our financial system" unless the mortgage giants were curbed. Frank complained that the administration was more concerned about financial safety than about housing. He insisted the Fannie and Freddie's problems were grossly exaggerated. Interestingly, Barney Frank received $40,000 in campaign funds from Fannie and was romantically involved with a Fannie executive.

Let us get real Okay No party this and that They are all crooks one way or another. and none of them have OUR interest at heart. So lets get back to the discussion.

I'm inclined to agree there. I have 2 sons under 25 who don't have a chance in Hades of finding jobs in this economy. I am one of those so called self entitled Boomers people talk about on here and I'll tell you now, there's no entitlement in my vocabulary. I am 50 years old, still caring for 2 sons who can't find employment and on disability. We'd better start pulling together as a nation and stop scapgoating others or this nation is going to fail miserably.

TO YIONSTER---You have a lifetime to work YOU CAN LIVE AT HOME You have a lifetime to invest . Many 25'ers have lived at home contribute nothing and drove expensive cars; you got all the expensive electronic toys; and think your parents got to where they are (maybe) overnight. Do you know how many parents before this situation started had their useless adult kids living at home and contributed Nothing to help out-no (not me) but I have seen a lot of "seniors" taking care of their young adult kids. We don't have the time to learn a new job skill and start at entry level salaries --when we have expertise in a specific field that took years to learn and we at age 50 and over don't have parents to move in with who can take care of us So if you think you are bad off under age 25 think again you might not be able to afford that sports car but you have the years for the economy improve so you can make a good living . Us older folks don't have that. If you are under age 25, you have more years ahead of you than behind you and from where I stand that is a REAL Plus

One thought on those under 25, Military. If they can't find work, lack skills or experience. Then serve the machine. Experience is this. Brought up in a sngle mom household a teen in the 80's with little to no support from dad with a PHD. Dropped out for the great paying job at a local supermarket. Wahoo $4.50/hr. Then other crap jobs were likewise sporatic. when daughter 1 was on the way the only way to grow up was USMC. Teaches discipline, low but is an income, teaches skills, better these days money for college (have an associate with a 3.94 gpa), and whole set of experiences to try to survive out this depression. Watched a productive thriving Towing business go bankrupt cause customers don't spend, salvage industry dropped 90% in value making it worthless, motor clubs pay maybe 1/2 their bills, and watched for over a decade child support ransack every investment I ever made which would have helped me survive this out, and the credit companies that I utilized to make do in between each low point max out escalating interest rates now I must save them. Let them eat cake as Marie Antoinette said, the result the same, off with their heads. Point being or lessons learned too late: Don't have kids too young (boomers made laws to go after with vindictive levels), don;t use credit cards, invest wisely, keep learning new skills wherever possible, and if no jobs & young enough to do so serve the country. Those over say 45 or so, can recover as kids are old enough to be on their own. Boomers? Sorry if ya didn;t invest by now, you may have ignored your parents using lessons learned in the 40's. Younger folks have the ability to learn and earn for the next 40 years. Y&X'ers will take probobly a decade to recover. Hope not but, is very conceivable after credit was extended to help our families through. 5-7 yrs after bankruptcy, no benefits, another few to save as much as possible as we can see retirement but, will we be able to do it?

You are forgetting that many Baby Boomers head into retirement with fixed-benefit retirement "pensions." Pretty much every person I know, I'm 62, has a retirement pension with medical benefits since they were either civil service employees, teachers, or started work when their company offered real retirement.

You also need to remember that in many work environments, you have two types of retirement plans working side by side. My wife, an RN, works for the state but she is PERS 1, full retirement, while people hired after 2004, have 401K plans. It's frustrating for the younger worker and why wouldn't it be? It's a joke!

I wouldn't worry too much about most Boomers retiring... again, pretty much everyone I know got an education (remember when it was "free?") and got career jobs or civil service... their retirements plans are outstanding compared to what is offered today as "retirement."

BTW, this just didn't "happen." Nobody stood up when corporations were taking away peoples' pensions and creating NAFTA and busting the Unions and changing the entire landscape... too busy playing video games and playing with electronic gadgets while a very small group of very rich people literally stole your future!

The boomers hmmm! No sympathy as they are for the most part going to suffer the least. Those that are already in retirement are relatively secure. But let's remember some of the more outstanding boomers of the last decade. Ken Lay, Jeffrey Skilling, Andrew Fastow, Bernard Madoff, R Allen Stanford not to mention most of the golden parachute CEO's who walked away from failing companys with millions while the company folded both in the dot com bust as well as the current recession. So to those who accuse us of being "too busy playing video games" it's time to look to your left and right, as the baby boomers, if i am not mistaken still outnumber any other generation before or since. What were you doing while this small group of rich Baby Boomers are practicing the masterful art of graft, corruption and greed. Where was your outrage? Where was your vote? Where was your voice?

I do have sympathy for the honest hard working small businessman or employee that suddenly has had their retirement moved back indefinitely. However fellow members of Generation X how confident are you that there will even be social security available to us when the time comes to retire and what will the minimum age be 90?

Thank you baby boomers I think we will get back to our video games so that we can shut out the reality that we will be supporting the very people that have robbed us, cheated us and let this country to financial ruin, for the next 20 to thirty years.

I would like to end by saying that anyone who would like to blame one generation over the other needs to take a hard look at their own generation. The problems we are having today are a result of many different factors from poor monetary policy, to corporate and individual greed. But we do need to pull together and stop blaming one another whether it be generations, white collar vs blue collar, union vs non-union. The time and effort spent finding someone to blame is time wasted. We do need to pull together and pay attention to the bills that keep flying through the house and will most likely end up in the hands of the next profiteering corporation that has figure out a way to get the money into their hands while providing little if anything in return.

You must live in the Washington DC area. most of the rest of us don't have guaranteed pensions from government jobs. Most of us work in the public domain in both blue and white collar jobs with our homes, a 401k or IRA and Social Security as our only safety nets. No retirement health insurance other than Medicare (once we get old enough) and what we have to pay for out of pocket. You got yours, how lucky you are! But - if you think the rest of us are in the same boat, get out in the REAL world and see what it is like.

Spoken like a true Older Baby Boomer, older Boomers have fix benefits retirement (pensions), but most of us younger boomers have 401Ks.

Doug, I don't know anyone with a pension and I'm 48. The only people I know who still have pensions are teachers and those who work for the government.

True statements about older boomers having fixed benefits and younger boomers not having them. A bit of education about fixed benefits that are not inflation adjusted. They will become worth-less as the inflation hits in future years as a result of all the money we are printing and pumping into the economy.

I have one thing to say here. "most" of the boomers? Working for government with locked in retirement? What boat did YOU come in on. I worked 16 years for a company that was supposed to have been "secure" with full retirement benefits. I became disabled and still have part of my retirement locked in. I felt that at 55 and a half, I would be fine. The company sold out, went bankrupt and reduced the pension funding to about 1/4 of what I would have been getting if I'd stayed until retirement. After the bankrupcy and sell off of assets, I found out I'll get a whopping 360 bucks a month to live on. So much for locked in retirement funds.

For all of the above commenters. The boomer generation are presently in their 50's and 60's. If you lose your job now or become disabled you are pretty much screwed. We are not the CEO's with golden parachutes. We have worked at trades that have either been shipped overseas or Mexicans have come to work at very low wages.

I quit my last job when I couldn't do it anymore, thinking my savings would last until 59 1/5. Then I would draw on my IRA until SS kicked in. Guess what?

Now I need disability which will most likely be unapproved because of the economy. I'm 55 now so what do I do?

Lots of Assumptions OUT THERE BY THE YOUNGER FOLKS WISH I HAD worked for the government, I would have health care and good pension now. Not all of us worked for the government and just had small employers; and for you younger folks, many pension plans in the private sector are going away meaning some people who had a plan and worked there won't get nothing (Unless you are in a union). So you can work many years in a place and an employer can take awway as easily as they gave those benefits. So don't assume anything EXCEPT prepare for when YOU ARE OLD. I worked 40 years laid off with no health care and nothing to show for it. But I paid into the system year after year. Let that be warning for younger folks-don't commityour self to an emloyer all your life; when you have opportunity to make money and go elsewhere you go Employers want your loyalty in good times and in bad times they take advantage of you being at their mercy for a job. You give a 100% at your job but you go for better when the opportunity happens!!!!! and don't look back. Wish someone had told me that when I was younger.

Doug Brown - I can't tell if you're berating me or feel bad for me. So I got it wrong. Now that you cleared it up for me, I don't feel bad for your age group anymore.

If you want to know the truth, I think my parents generation (birth years 1938 - 1942, give or take a couple of years) were the luckiest generation of this country. They don't remember the depression, and the recesssion of 2001 didn't hurt them. They collect government or company pensions, and were able to buy houses when they cost no more than a car cost today. They didn't have to plan for retirement based on 401k plans, and spent their working years with solid job security.

Depending on when you were born, the baby boomers are stretched into two economic groups - those with pensions and those without. I was born in 1963 - what's a pension??? I'm counted in both the baby boomer generation and the Gen X group. I remember suffering through the recession of 1990 - 91, 2001, and now! My age group has never caught a break. My entire adult life has been about changing careers as a I navigated through recessions and layoffs. Very few people of "my" generation have had the opportunity to work in one place their entire careers, and have been forced to change careers just to survive.

I said I would make it - but I was just trying to sound brave. I have no retirement, but I do own a home with about $100,000 in equity - that's it! I'm officially on my third career now, having just abandoned the last one with this most recent recession. I simply could not find a full time job in my chosen career of Business Systems Analyst in 9 months, so I've moved into the realm of Collections/Recovery because there is only one company in the Richmond, Virginia area that is still hiring full time people on a regular basis - I took what I could get so that I could support my family.

Surviving has been the "name of the game" for my generation - there will be no "retirement". We will work until we drop dead, just like the generations that came before WW2.

God no, not berating at all. Sorry if you took it that way... I was born in 47.

Your post is very interesting, thanks for the details. I do had great empathy for your situation. As a political activist since the 60's, I guess the only point I was trying to make is that people have become somewhat a-political (sure, they follow Presidential races and many "vote,' but I mean... directly participating in the political process).

Most of these changes happened within a political context and most of America was asleep. The single most profound moment in the 20th century was when Ronald Reagan was elected President. Pretty much the entire decline of this country can be traced to that one event.

Then, to finish off the hacket job, the American people elect Bush for two terms. I just wish younger folks today would be more political, and more involved. When all these pivotal events occurred that have resulted in the amazing economic mess we have today, lots of critics and progressives were screaming about the consequences to the working man in this country. Well, it's all come to rest.

And if you think I'm an Obama support, I'm not. Granted he's way better than McCain but this country truly needs "change," and I'm afraid obama is so engrained in our corrupt political process that we will never see any fundamental change... as promised.

I wish people would get pissed off at what's happened to their futures... and act out! Do something...

Thanks for your thoughtful comments... again, sorry if you thought I was berating in any way... I get carried away! :)

My Dad was 81 when he died. I'm 49, husband 49. My Dad couldn't grasp that we don't have pensions. He'd ask about it and we'd laugh and say "They don't have pensions anymore". I worked for 23 years in a "Right to Work State" , no pension and then in the 90's they started 401K's. I saved up 45K in it in 7 years, then ended up with 6K. The 6K that was left after I got robbed is supposedly supposed to last for 30 years. Pretty funny , and pretty sorry for a "pension" 6K doesn't go very far. In fact I don't even realize I have that left. I started savings in a ROTH IRA , it cost 35 a year to maintain then I only had 2K going but that 2K turned into 600 bucks. I had to stop , and get what was left (200 bucks). I couldn't afford to pay 35 a year for something that would be negative money. It's all such a rip off. All we have left is the right to work until dropping dead but then again, after age 50 you'll probably never get hired due to insurance purposes. Anyway, my total retirement package after 27 years of work, 6,200 dollars. Wow -eee.

Not all boomers have pensions. A whole lot of us were Reaganized....25 years ago getting a new job because of this very same thing. My 401K is now my 201K. I had hoped many years ago to retire at 55. After putting both children through college, I revised that plan to 62. Now, I'm 59 and do not see where I will retire at all. I also live in a "right to work" state. I thought that I was covering all bases through fugal living. I have had to fight the bitterness of saving and living within my means only to have it just evaporate. It will get better - but will it be in time?

Not all boomers are as lucky as you and your wife. Most of us will work till the first shovel full of dirt hits our face. I don't know where you came from, but where I grew up we had to pay for our education, and my parents didn't have the money. I am 61 years old and am raising my second family and I don't see anything good in the near future except the $13.00 that will be in my check every week. If people just didn't think they were entitled to it all without the blood, sweat, and tears that it takes to succeed, the fat cats at the top wouldn't have been able to steal it all.

I am in my mid-fifties, work in the private sector. What is a pension?

AGAIN - ARROGANT DOUG BROWN DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. HE MUST STILL BE SMOKING THE WEED! And good for him and his wife that they are doing so well. They lucked out. AND CAN'T HELP BUT KEEP BRAGGING ABOUT IT. 95% of boomers do NOT have pension plans! My dad, who died in '04 at the age of 88, worked for Internation Harvester for almost 50 years. Yes, he had a pension with everything, but as the years went on and when he was in late 70's, early 80's, the company started slashing a lot of benefits from the pension plan but because he had been in for ages, he was exempt from most of the cuts. And that is how it has been since the 80's - companies getting rid of their pension plans and it was up to the employees to start saving money for retirement; to invest in the stock market which could no no wrong.

The arrogance of Doug Brown is amazing. I can just picture he and his wife sitting there looking at their account statements and feeling superior to all the rest of us who do not have pensions.

If I were you, Mr. Brown, I'd quit bragging on how wonderful you have it because it can all change in a heartbeat and everything you have can be gone in a very short period of time. And....before you post anything -- please check your facts. I can count on one hand how many companies have pension plans anymorel. And again - most people did not have civil service jobs. Most of us have or had normal jobs without the benefit of pension plans. If I had a pension plan right now, I'd be so happy. I could at least pay my rent, utilities and my meds every month instead of relying on tax payer dollars to help me out. Believe me - I would rather be working...

Mandy I feel for you; I don't think Doug meant to 'brag', but, some folks can be a little insensitive, I agree, about touting their good fortune. One of my veteran friends was out of work recently and his state unemployment department penalized him for collecting a small pension from his time in the service; instead of getting the $393 a week he was entitled to, he wound up getting just $83 a week that he STILL had to pay taxes on which left him with like $73 a week. This guy's pension barely covers rent and basic bills, but, his state would not budge on his entitlement vs what they would allow him to collect; which is bull@!$%# because if we all pay into this unemployment insurance fund, we are entitled full benefits in the event we do become unemployed and it is not double-dipping.

Doug, I don't know where you live. I am 64 and my husband is 65. You must live in Utopia.

Land of the free and home of the brave..

I like the tone of this thread. I was born in 43 - seen beats, flower children, civil rights.. Done a lot of things. My take, probably since Nixon, is the nastyness of politics. This and that POS idiot $#@. Lived most of my time as if politicians didn't matter.

Sure it sounds stupid now (not when I was in 5th grade) about Land Of The Free. It took a long way for me to understand what they were talking about - freedom From government. Guess I subscribe to the "government that governs least, governs best" clan. And it has worked pretty well.

I don't think any of us (generations) get a free ride. There is cancer, layoffs, trouble children, money problems, floods, war, and so for each of us. Never saw the government willing to help - Guess I was too young, or old, or rich, or poor - never found any Goldylocks zone. The one thing I never adopted was that the government controlled my life or my fate. I refuse to be a helpless pawn of anybody - be it a politician, banker, or some know-it-all who thinks it daring to call the President names (or past Presidents for that matter). It's just downright devisive and serves us up to partisian idiots on both sides to be controlled. This is serious stuff folks.

We had better find our feet soon and throw off those who would have us depend on government for our bread and water. That's all the partisian namecalling amounts to - which brand you want to control you (and everyone else too.) Seems both sides have the communist theory that it can't exist unless everyone is communist. "There can be only one" as Duncan McCloud says.

So, make your rules. I and mine will prosper. Just wish there were more who wanted to be part of the club.

Sorry I irritated you so much, I really didn't mean to...

Have to wonder where you came up with the statistic that 95% of Boomers don't have pensions... again, my comments are admittedly based solely on my experience with my friends and people I grew up with... and, yeah, I guess most of the people I know are related to the public sector in one way or the other, teachers, nurses, civil servants, social workers, etc., etc.

I totally appreciate how bad it is out there today and I wish things were different. I wish more people were politically involved and more aware of what's going on. I mean, how do you explain the American people electing Bush for two terms? For those who voted for Bush twice, I feel far less empathy. For those who voted against Bush the last eight years, it's horrible how things have turned out. And I'd bet these economic hard times are gonna last for a very, very long time, regardless of the last three days when the Stock Market increased a little and broke 7,000.

Some asked where I went to school and how it was "free." I was born and grew up in the Bay Area in California. I went to San Jose State University (back then, just SJS) and the cost of tuition from 1965-1969 was zero. We paid some misc. fees but our total cost per semester (no terms yet) was $48.50. So two semesters per year cost me around $100.00 + books for one year of college. I'd consider that "free."

I went to grad school at UC Berkeley and I paid $300.00 a semeseter for grad school, plus books. I literally paid for school out of my small earnings I made as a p/t retail clerk at Safeway. I never took out a student loan, although they had started by then... And I only worked 16 hours per week, entirely on the weekends at Safeway.

Anyway, thanks for your comments, even though they were a little vicious!

Again, Doug Brown, I am a boomer and have many friends who are boomers and I know NO ONE who has a pension. And yes, I'm a white-collar, professional and so are the other boomers I know. No private companies offer pensions any more. The only spoiled people who get pensions now days are those who have jobs funded by taxpayers.

I heard of a pension, once upon a time. That was long ago. Doug, I so agree with so many things you have said (which no one seems to be taking seriously) If SOME generation or group of us people do not get off our asses we are only going to go downhill and faster!

I totally agree that our government has stolen our say so about anything in this country. I do not think the current prez will be any better than any other (although, Bush was about as bottom of the barrel as I have seen). Whoever is elected is a puppet belonging to someone (some group of people) Obama is no different. He is someone's token mixed race or black person (whatever he is leaning towards these days).

I have group insurance $300 per month with a fortune 500 company. Huge deductible and co-pay etc. I had a Doctor, a specialist, tell me not to worry about paying any thing other than what my insurance pays. He charges me 4 times as much as he charges those without insurance or on medicare in order to make a living.

Years back - the last time universal healthcare was in the wind, he, and most of his cronies swore they would stop practicing medicine if the bill was ever passed. That's what got rid of Hillary from the race.

Does anyone have a clue about how much money prescription drugs pull in for those drug companies? If our so-called gov't had the nads to regulate the drug companies this country would have many less serious problems. Not a topic I can cover right now. WHY DO YOU THINK THE DRUG COMPANIES HAVE COME UP WITH THOSE FREE DRUG OFFERS? It's called CYA!

I have always thought that if a company owner(s) (board, investors, whatever) had to live exactly how they are forcing/expecting others to live with their wares, or, the results of such, things would straighten up in no time.

Example; those who highly profit from Nuclear Energy/Power Plants?Toxic Waste Disposal. They do not worry about the lifespan of the crap they are burying. Besides, they have enough money to stay away from it - why worry?...make them live by a site like those they have built around this country and see if they think happy thoughts about that.

Do not allow and discounts/kickbacks/rebates/favors/perks in gov't work and see how many pile up to be elected/hired. BTW...I live in Pisshole, USA. Population 4,000. Our Mayor, Town Aldermen, Commissioners etc. are paid by the hours they put in. Arount $3,500 per year. What gives with that? Are all the really ripoff jobs only found in DC or what?

There are ONLY two sweet jobs in this country, Politician and Drug Manufacturing Company. Make that three... Oil Refinery.

On oil and gas prices - that ate most of us alive last year...I suggested a national stay at home day on a Saturday. Everyone stay home. Do not use gas, do not buy gas. ONE DAY was all it would have taken to snap those prices back in line...just one. But NO. We say...we earn our money and we'll do what we want. Such pride...we played right into it. No one wants or will do without if there is an alternative. We deserve all that we want. That freedom has a hell of a price tag doesn't it?

Doug your pension is not set in stone.

#1 if its a private pension its subject to the health of your employer's pension plan. If your company goes BK then your benefits will likely be cut when its seized by the PBGC. A lot of variables here but clearly not set in stone.

#2 if its a public pension its only as safe as the ability/will to tax to pay it. In fact most pension/healthcare plans run by the governement are MASSIVELY underfunded. You public pension people are in for a rude awakening when the rest of us are screwed and we come after you. There is NOTHING that prohibits an arbitrary cut in those benefits. You can vote against the politicians that do it, but rest assured if things get bad enough those of who will benefit from screwing you will outweigh the # of people getting screwed.

In short dont kid yourself. If they can arbitrarily tax the AIG bonuses because the feel like it we can all do the same to you pension. Its a very slippery slope we are headed down.

Wait until hyperinflation kicks in....you will be eating dog food.

You are one lucky person You mentioned wife had "state" pension that is very good Many of us who put in years in private sector are kicking oursselves for not working for the government. My first employer I worked for for 30 years and they went bust-and the 401k match turned into a 1/4 penney share match the pension went into the PG Fund thank goodness I worked another 7 years for new employer and got laid off I live in one of the highest tax states (CA) where rents and housing have always been expensive and required a double income to buy even in good times. Double incomes are very good - can set you up for life but when you are single it is a whole different story.

Anyhow i am glad you are doing ok and I hope you continue to do so because you never know what is lurking around the corner these days.

Wait until you have to pay for the taxes and the Social Security when Obamas done

What does that have to do with the subject at hand?

Bush wanted to PRIVATIZE Social Security, and in this market what would that be worth now??

Keep the political comments to the political threads, please.

I agree, we will have to help pay but so does everyone. As a country we put ourselves in this spot. There is no money, no jobs and no benefits for any age group. It is pretty bad when a degree will get you a job at wal-mart. Everyone needs to stop the crying. Everyone is effected and for once, we need to come together and work to figure it out.

Don't worry, your generation will cause mistakes for others. Don't blame.

"The oldest generation (over 64) are suffering the least because most of them are collecting social security and are eligible for Medicaid. "

Do you read the news?? Any idea how many of those "got-it-made-oldie-moldies" have lost their life savings and homes to pay for medical bills that medicare won't pay and s.s. is not near enough to cover?

Any clue as to how many of those 'silver-spoon-up-their-ass-finally-ancients" die each winter just trying to keep warm without any type of heat because they cannot afford it?

Have you heard how many oldsters are thrown into nursing homes and forgotten by the very families they spent their lives raising just so they don't take any time and effort out of their kids' lives?

Ooooo..I can hardly wait to get to that age!!

Sehvinn, you must really hate your parents. My mother is 65 and she's struggling to pay off more than $25.000. in hospital bills. No medicare, she was too young when she was hospitalised. She has social security now and just a sliver of medicare (it's changed lately ya know). I have medical insurance through employment, a $15.00 co-pay to see the doc, but Mom's medicare co-pay is $95.00. I can work, she can't get hired "TFO". I can go on and on, but I can tell it's a futile attempt to educate an idiot! Your mom must be so proud. Oh, and thank you kindly, for not referring to my mother as a "moldie oldie" or a "silverspooned ancient" One day, you will be 65, if the rest of us let you live that long.

Im 61 Too young for Social Security and Medicaid I have paid into MEDICAL for decades and the other as well I carry no health coverage right now and thank goodness I do not require any prescription drugs yet. I want to work in the field I am good in because I want to work and of course feed my face too. Entry level jobs will place me out living on the street because it is inadequate for housing. I do not want hand outs or welfare I always took care of myself I just hope in the next 6 months or when my unemployment runs out I will find another job We are all in difficult times and some are in worse situations-except for those who worked for the government-I don't care to hear from them-my tax dollars helped make their retirement years comfortable. Young people have it difficult too but they have the years ahead of them and if you can get a government job or don't be seduced by extravagence-live simple and save your money. If you live in an expensive state like me (CA) get out of it when you can and settle somewhere where you will be able to afford a home and raise a family with good schools and elbow room.

my exact thought. but, we live for a better tomorrow, a better life for our children and our grandchildren. my mistakes were made and i'm paying for them with the remainder of my life. no time or money for a pity party.

You have it pretty rough. I hope things get better for you soon.

Star, I know where you're coming from. My last job was as an Administrative Assistant for a boss I like to call "Pol Pot with a bad toupee." Needless to say, my blood pressure shot up due to the constant harassment , and being scared to death when he would sneak up behind me. ( I'm only 35!) If you can afford the rent here ( California), come over. I'm sure the healthcare benefits are much better.

I live in Baja California. A lot of people are retired here. The cost of living is much cheaper. You can live by the ocean for what a small apt. costs in L.A. San Diego isn't far away and you can get an American address. We love it here. I just wish my retirement savings haddened evaporated.

You have to be kidding. You're complaining about a $20/credit AA degree? If you deserved any chance of a home in the future, you would be in your junior year of your bachelors degree (even state schools offer full scholarships to anyone with half a brain). You are the LAST person who deserves a home. Its not hard. You have to work to earn what you deserve. People like you were given homes 10X what you could afford just 2 years ago... hence the housing and economy crash. Please find a backbone and some work ethic and EARN a degree. I worked my ass off and had my bachelors at 20 and master's at 22. It can be done.

Wow, a bit harsh, aren't we? You are making the assumption that this person is struggling due to laziness and/or stupidity, which isn't necessarily fair. While it is commendable that you were able to receive a bachelor's degree at 20 and a master's at 22, realize that yours is a unique circumstance, and it's not just due to your inherent superiority. Keep in mind that there are any number of reasons why someone would need to extend, delay, or even forgo further education. You know, I, too have a work ethic and an education, and I used to be as judgmental as you. However, life can be a bit more complicated than we think, and it's quite a fall from that high horse.

J-957501,

What planet are you on that it costs $20 a credit hour for college?? I would move there if I knew. As far as working hard, I am almost 26 and I have worked very hard for what I have. To hear diatribes such as yours is not only angering and insulting...it just seems to prove the level of obtuse that you have achieved! I worked full time, went to night school...got up early for work and did that for 6 years. Please temper your comments with a little bit of humility.

i agree younger people have it hardest. its not their mistakes they have to pay for. its money grubbing pigs who now whine because they can't get a job that pays what they are supposed to be "worth" when they didn't do a very good job in the first place. a lesson is being missed -- like the lesson of 9/11 was missed and the country screwed up and invaded iraq in blind rage and now this kid has a 700 billion bill for that too. living is about living with the billions of others on this earth -- its not all about your inisipid idea that you are somehow better than anyone else because you had a masters by 22.

i used to work in higher education and funding was royaly screwed by two bushes. i know what he is talking about. there are state programs to replace federal progams but they are drying up. at the same time i question the value of an education when someone so repulsive and shallow as nut job j has a masters and learned nothing from a system that is failed anyway.

and if i hear another person whine about their 401k i am going to throw up -- they were a bad idea from the beginning and everyone knew it. but people wanted something for free. now its not so free they whine. boo on you. social security should have been repaired but somehow social programs are supposed to be evil, mostly because poor minorities get some too.

You call 401K something for free? No wonder many graduates leave higher education so ill prepared for the real world with morons like you involved in their education. I would love to hear your explaination on how you think 401k's work. I'll give you a hint, employees voluntarily funded there 401k's with there hard earned money, with some employers matching part of what they put in. This does not sound like something for free to me. Also, why do you think a underfunded government Social Security program could be repaired to a point that it could have supported all citizens retirement. From its inception, this program has always spent more money than it has taken in. The only way to fix SS is to raise the amount that every worker contributed giving people less money in there pockets, or actually invest funds into a market and try to grow them. If they had invested the funds they would have been lost in the market just like peoples 401k's.

Grant - I have two grown sons. Neither has ever bothered to buy a home. Only one has a family and he is in no hurry to shell out what it would cost to buy, pay for taxes and insurance of a home. He was home until he was 30 years old, my oldest is 36 and still living at home and I take responsibility for his expenses.

I was fortunate enough to have a windfall when I was 27 years old. 27!! Oh, what I could have done with that money - par-tay-time!!! I had a custom home built on over 2 acres of land and paid for before I was 28 years old. This is for my children.

I'm sure I am not the only over-extending, self-deserving boomer with a shady agenda in mind who lived their life with an eye on the future care of their children and grandchildren. You take and you give. Pay it forward, whatever you want to call it.

My point to you is - forget about it. Maybe your parents have looked out for you. You never know!

Rent an apartment, Einstein

Bev- do you realize how much an apartment costs in some places? Especially considering the crap they pay for entry positions now adays? I came out of college 100k in student loans, and the business world isn't exactly helping me pay those off quick. If you can find one.. considering unemployed boomers are now despirate to get anything to pay for retirement...

As for housing, forget it. Me and my wife make nearly 90k a year and still can't find anything near us until recently. Finding a house that wasn't a s--t hole and less than 300k was impossible.. (and by livable i mean livable.. as in not rotting and falling apart and in need of 100k worth of work as it stood)

I would also love to know where i can go to college for $20.00 per hour. I went for 3 years at YSU - Youngstown State University. I had to stop going and support my family. Not all of us are as lucky as you () to have gotten off so cheaply with education. But that aside, please try to get out of that bubble you are living in and start viewing the world with more compassion and more openminded views. You sound like a pompous my sh!t doesn't stink kind of person.

Thank you for calling some people out. The majority voted for Obama (more than $1.2 billion spending PER HOUR). One day, just as lenders have been coming, the bill collector will be calling. Dark days ahead. Time for people to batten down the hatches and learn what fiscal responsibility is all about. Our foolish spending will take its toll. Time for the newer generations to learn what "hard life" is and actually have to work to get an education that's worth something. Huge overhaul is necessary and I hate to break it to the lower class (how do they even have Internet? oh wait, that's right, Obama is trying to have public access set up under the new "recovery plan"). I am currently currently critical but understand people with poor backgrounds have less access to education. Its time for complacency to end. Overvalued life and credit are gone because people who weren't responsible enough were given more than they could afford because high fees added to the bottom line. Its funny because people with a good education in fields (health, mental health, electricians, etc) are doing fine despite the "recession" because they're helping people regardless of the economy. If people focused on learning job skills that helped the world, they would spend less time whining about how bad their situation is (i.e. hartcamargo) and put in the work required to better their situation. Come on... 21 and complaining about how much an AA requires? A bachelors is the equivalent of a high school degree 15-20 years ago.

Learn how to walk a day in someone's shoes before you go judging. Explain to me how working class folks were supposed to know that they couldn't afford the mortgages that the banks approved them for. Isn't that the whole purpose of the mortgage review process? It is NOT entirely the borrowers fault. Some borrowers happen to be middle class and even some upper middle class people who just happen to lose their jobs or whatnot. So your judgments and conclusions are baseless and just plain ignorant.

And do not assume you know everything about college students because it is not easy these days. If we are supposed to go to college to eventually create wealth in the economy, then why does the government support putting college kids in debt as they do so (AKA STUDENT LOANS)??? And to top it all off, a lot of college students' parents are being hit by this crisis making it unable for the parents to pay for their kids tuition, which leaves the burden in the hands of students who dont make a lot of money anyways. You tell me what job is going to hire a 20 year old with no experience for a decent salary and expect them to be able to pay outrageous tuition costs anyways? You are not currently in college, and I assume that tuition was cheaper back when you did attend. Don't assume you know what its like to be a college student in 2009. What you need to do is either STFU or go die. You are ignorant and baseless. Everything you have to say is based on assumption and NOT fact.

and stop telling people they need an education. They are trying to obtain one. YOU, on the other hand need a reality check. All the education you have ever had does not make up for your blatant idiocy and arrogance. A bachelors or masters degree will never cover that up....and your degrees dont prove nothing to me or anyone on this board. It only proves you read books...not that you were actually a valuable member of society. In fact, noone knows you personally and you could be lying about the whole thing. You are one person ranting via keyboard and computer screen because you have a degree so you think you are worthy of salvation from this recession and that you have the authority to tell someone how smart or uneducated they are. Well guess what buster, WE ARE ALL SUFFERING. Whether you like it or not, your judgment of other people being "uneducated" does not make you any smarter...in fact it only makes you even more ignorant.

I can't believe how arrogant that guys is. I have a degree, we should all get a degree. Then we can flood the job market he is in and show him how to compete in the real world. That person really really thinks his crap does not stink, thinks he is better than others becuase he has an educations and has not felt the impact of this financial recession. What a load of bunk. I am not stupid because I don't have a college degree. I need 3 credit hours to complete mine, it will cost me about 15,000 dollars, not 60 dollars in that man's fantasy land. I have two daughters and a wife to support, so I can not go back yet. I will eventually go back and get my degree. I can guarantee you this...When I do get it, I will not be judgemental and pompous as that arrogant guy is. Wake UP!!!

I think most people really are not whining Most of us (all ages) are frustrated; the young we tell them go to school get a degrees and you will get a good job Then we are told work hard all your life and you will retire ok Then the whole thing blows up for everyone Sharing your feelings and stories is a good thing Note in some places rents can be 50% of your monthly income. I would think most of us in this discussion are hard working and independent individuals who don't want hand outs. Check with your colleagues who still have jobs and see how the employers are piling on the workload, cutting back on hiring even if they are not hurting financially, minimizing benefits taking away pension funds (friend worked 30 years for a co and they eliminated pension fund not sure how they can do that legally (in Ohio) but he says they did. This is an employers market and they are taking full advantage of the situation. That is why my advice to the younger generation is to be entreprenerial (sic) don't commit yourself to a single employer your entire life; give them 100% for the paycheck and when better offers come along move on.

you need an education. stop whining. get an education (graduate degree). you make a heck of a lot more. all that's required is work ethic.

You know, it's very easy to say get a graduate degree and make more money but the fact is, it's getting extremely competitive to get into grad schools right now. Everyone is trying to stay in school or trying to go back to school. I'm a senior in college about to graduate in May so I hear about this every day. I have friends with 4.0s and very high GRE scores getting rejected from grad schools. It's very challenging. I'm actually not going for grad school right now and taking my chances with the job market for that reason. I did get (or am in the process of getting) an education with lots of internships and at this point, I'm not above taking retail work just to survive.

I don't mean to be critical or argumentative, I just wanted to point out the challenges of getting into grad school these days.

Also, I have to agree, I think everyone here is suffering. Job loss or a poor job market is miserable for anyone who is capable of working.

First of all, I consider myself very lucky. I had some good mentors that taught me some valuable lessions. BOth my parents were Depression Babies, btw.

I'm 44 and live in California. My Dad worked for Nasa and we lived quite well when I was growing up. When I was 16 my father said to me, "When you are an adult, you will not have this kind of quality of life. This is a bubble in time. Expect to work hard, at times get little, and don't get angry when the rules change." I headed those words. I went through school working hard, always keeping an eye on the economy (I'm a therapist, so I really don't know much about money, but try to follow trends, news, etc), and went through the recession of the early 90s (just out of graduate school, that I paid for with loans). I had a master's degree, couldn't find a job for 2 years. I worked in retail, 20 hours a week for minimum wage, got foodstamps and county-based "insurance." I struggled, but rememberd my dad's words. All around me my well educated friends were crying and fussing about not getting a "real" job and having PhDs. I didn't stress as much as they did (yes, I still stressed, but I didn't take any of it personally). I just kept my ear to the ground, did what I could and kept going. Did I have a lot of debt? Heck yes! I paid it off the best I could, kept my credit scores up as best I could. Accepted financial help when offered. That's what food stamps, General Assistance, etc is for. For tough times, not to live off of for ever. I used it when I needed it.

Now, here we are again. I saw the writing on the wall over a year ago. I heard my dad's voice and tried to brace for this time. I don't take it personally. I just do what I can to get by and help others where I can. I'm very lucky that I have a job in health care that is stable for the time. That can change as people are loosing insurance left and right. My 401k is a joke, $20,000 saved over 10 years, now worth $5,000. I'm looking more closely at the politics, writing to my senators and congressmen, saving money in a more traditional way (still, though in a 401k, I may be lucky and have some profit before I need the money).

I too, always knew that I would not retire before the age of 70, if at all. One of the reasons I chose to become a therapist - age can still be considered a virtue.

DogMom,

Really interesting post... thanks for sharing. A lot of wisdom here from you and your dad.

You have a great attitude. I hope things get easier for you :)

I never thought much about retiring unless you havea pile of money laying around to travel or whatever; I just thought I would be at least working-at my age you don't have the time to retrain in another field and make enough money at the same time to cover your basic expenses-otherwise I would not be adverse to learning a new job-think that may be the real problem for many of us in that age bracket because of the time factor. I check the jobs of the future but they are for "future" and if you are young enough you should zoom in on those potential jobs and prepare yourself the best you can to take advantage of those opportunities.

Saw kind of a dismal outlook after reading countless upity attitudes on here such as one that couldn't find a place that wasn't a dump for under 300K, part of the problem, maybe they make a lot of dough.? I have an asssociate degree finished business courses with a 3.94gpa, not dumb, a former Marine honorably discharged (GI Bill was my way to school), and I don't hide behind fake names. I am me if someone doesn;t like it tough. Took all kinds of added investment seminars out of my pocket. Suggestion to the younger folks, I'm 38, barely still self employed, but I don't punch a clock for anyone to abuse my efforts anymore. no I have no benefits but, did I really for any employer anyways? How, I invested in my interests! Don;t worry legal do gooders robbed me time after time becase I had a child at 19, not a good move, can;t change it, don;t want to hear any pedestal sitters opinion on that. Anyways a little every week put away. Pick one or two things you can do without, and invest it, so you don;t have to work til you drop. Suggestion for those getting killed on 401K's switch to an IRA that you can change if it's not returning anything. Watched some good customers lose 100K plus as they devoted all their savings into company stocks, bad move! When a stock tanks you should have monitored them yourself and set your limits, drops x percent sell! Reinvest elsewhere! $20-50 a week away is better than nothing. There's more stable options, play with some, and switch up with the economy, it will get better, God I hope so! If not bank CD's if nothing else. Do the math, 4% positive is better than 50% drop in value. If it earns it's free money, time is money. If no investment looks stable buy some equipment, and add some sidework at whatever you can do. For the poor as someone over mentioned with such downward self righteousness is the same lazy bastard that will pay you $20-40 to plow out their driveway for 10 minutes work, mow their lawn, or watch their spoiled little brats. Whatever your skills figure how you can add what goes into someone else's register, and invest it til you can retire. Older folks, you should have a world of life experience, teach it! There's money out there, find it, not from the remote watching an infomercial, by the way i-net businesses are only good to drain your wallet. If it's there I tried it, til I looked at what I did everyday and invested in it, for my family, and my work is hard as hell but, it's mine! I grew up poor as dirt if ya wonder, ever use two chairs and a green blanket, with presents from 7-11 for christmas, that poor! My dad a boomer had a phd in electrical engineering and from a farming background lacked the ability to share. Go figure? Education level doesn;t mean bumpkiss a internal drive, common sense, a plan, and a little knowledge will go well beyond some of the arrogant overeducated inhumane people I've read comments from on here. Just a snapshot of society, and places that need repair.

Many of us did live like that. Others, such as myself, never let our spending get out of control, didn't buy too many things on credit, and didn't buy more house than we could comfortably pay for every month. When I bought my house in 2004, the mortgage person tried to talk me into an ARM and going with no money down. That was at the height of all the sub-prime lending. The way she put it, it sounded tempting, but also suspicious so I paid attention to my instincts and and insisted on going only with a 30-year fixed rate of 5.26%. I'm glad now for the self-discipline I had and continue to have and feel sorry for those who thought the good times would never end.

By the way, Nunnaya, I didn't mean to rag on your post -- you actually make a lot of very wonderful and wise points, thankyou. I guess because I grew up poor and on Welfare, I saw how tough life could be and how it could turn at any minute, so I never took prosperity for granted.