Should CIA agents be tried for torture?

Maybe we should BEHEAD the Bush "goons" like the terrorists do us!!!!!!!!!!

Get a grip........these terrorists are monsters. Fine for you to say while you're safe in the USA. Or are you, now that Obama is in charge?

During the Nurenburg War Crimes Tribunals the most repeated phrase by the Nazi's was " I was only doing my job". If our intelligence agencies had not been so involved in their silly turf wars and listened to the reports of suspicious individuals going to flight school the 9/11 catastrophe would have never happened. Remember the female FBI agent who was demoted because she kept trying to tell her superiors that these arabs posed a threat.Instead of listening to her they sent her off to a crap assignment to bury her. Had our intelligence agencies properly protected our borders 9/11 would have never happened but since the business community is so intent on getting cheap labor into the country the floodgates have been opened and it isn't a matter of if,just when more terrorist fly in under the radar. Don't pat yourselfs on the back just yet because we haven't been hit again. There were 9 years between the first and second attack on the World Trade Center.Also don't think that Al Quida is our only enemy. We need to be much more restrictive on who gets in to our country or all the torture in the world won't be able to protect us.

Screw you! You liberal pantywaist! Al Queda killed approx. 4,000 U.S. citizens. If the CIA got the info they needed by pouring water on those jackasses, then so be it! They desreved worse!

mikey29 - where did you get that number? Under 3,000 and not all were US citizens. That doesn't minimize the tragedy...it merely points out you really don't know what you are talking about. Credibility counts. You don't think us killing tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis (please stop and tell us you understand that Iraq was neither part of, nor a breeding ground for Al Queda) puts us in a bad light? I am so sick of hate begets hate...nothing good comes from it.

From the top down, everyone involved in the torture needs to be held responsible. Lindy England clearly was not acting alone, but how many years did they make her do?

"Get a grip........these terrorists are monsters. Fine for you to say while you're safe in the USA. Or are you, now that Obama is in charge?"

How does tortuting people make us any better?

Deeg wrote:

these terrorists are monsters

Are you really so scared that you are willing to forget our laws and morals? Is the Boogie man so frightning? Do you really think these people are so powerful that we should toss our good name in the mud?

How about all those "good Germans" and Japanese who were "just following orders? Sometimes a person has to say, "Enough! I won't do a wrong thing even if they tell me it's legal". It's called morality and conscience.

How many lives of our fellow Americans were saved because of these methods to obtain information.  I am sick to death of these one sided reporting of the news media.  Release the results of this so called torture.

How many of you would like your family killed as a result of being kind to these terrorist?  I suppose if they blew up Boston, we would give them milk and cookies.  War is hell and the consequences of peoples actions justifies whatever it takes to make us safe.

It is quite simple. Go ahead and let these "good" detainees go and pay them big bucks for their discomfort. I want to be like Obama not Bush. Now the next time an American citizen or any innocent person gets killed no one say one word about justice. No one say word about how bad an attack on a mass of people is so disheartening. No one say one word about how Americans ban together in a time of crisis. All the crying and anger after 9/11 must have been fake. This was not cruel torture by any means. In fact it was a bit light compared to what our POW's went through. So yes apologize for it. Say you are sorry. Prosecute all involved. But be sure it is what you want. Because when another tragety hits I for one do not want to hear the out pouring of sorrow. You are opening the door now for political gains. Not because it was wrong. Now is the time to act. You can't close the barn door after the cows have left. It is a shame we have to hide like cowards and not be proud of our country. We use to think we were a great and powerful nation. We use to have pride in our country. Anymore we are just like the rest of the world and no different. That is a shame.

Just a ploy to take our minds off what is going on. We are loosing all our freedoms in the name of peace when we are the only ones trying to keep peace.

Just as Obama bowed to the Saudi King, our country is being surrendered to the Middle East without even a whimper from most of the people in the USA. They just sit and yell "Give Me" with their hand out.

Look what the other side does to people who do not work in their countries. Gays are beheaded, women are killed just for looking at a man or dressing the wrong way.

Get the drugs and booze out of your system and pay attention...or all will be lost including your life.

So what your saying is, since you elected the officials you should also be prosecuted. We have elected officials, we elected them. Who really is to blame?

I don't believe that. Alls fair, so they say, and I agree. Listen, all I know is Obama is making friends with a bunch of scumbags. He already has questionable friends. He has everyone, so turned around. He does something good on one hand but no one knows what the other hand is doing. I think there is much more to this than anyone wants to admit. The left keeps saying move forward. But all I hear is the blame game, come on people., really move forward and open your eyes and ears. Our Country will be stripped of all freedoms if we keep allowing this behavior. It would be sad if we all wake up after the fact. The government and the left -wing media will run us all.

Josh Drew wrote -

they should have done something to stop it.

done something to stop it? They told them to do it... I do think you are correct that at the VERY least these people should be fired.

I'm sorry, but I believe you should maybe put yourself in the position Bush and the administration were facing.  We had just had over 3,000 Americans killed, and statements that this was just the beginning.  In a perfect world, we could sit these people down, and ask them politely, to please give us all the information you have about future plans to destroy America and kill Americans.  Do you honestly believe that you would acquire any information.?  These are people who total goal in life is to destroy anything about America and it's citizens.

I'm not saying that I'm proud of the CIA, or anything about forced information.  But your living in a dream land if you don't think the same thing  never went on in WWII, or any other major conflict the USA has endured. 

I would really like to know how you would have handled the situation.  I just know that for 8 years we have not had a terrorist attack, and not because they haven't been planned.  Mostly because we have obtained information about them.  Let's just hope for the next four years we will have control over the situation. 

Granted 9/11 had taken place, but what gives us the right to be judge, jury and executioner. Americans act like they are better than the rest of the people in the world, but I beg to differ we are just as hypocritical. We will do whatever pleases us as long as we can find a way to justify it whether it's right or wrong.

Two wrongs does not make a right 9/11 was wrong, and what we did was just as wrong too, but some people are willing to believe anything, but I learned a long time ago to take everything with a grain of salt.

The Bush admiistration has told so many lies that one doesn't know what to believe anymore, but my parents taught me if you tell one lie then you have to tell another lie to cover up the first lie, and then another, etc. I think Bush and and his cronies should be tried for war crimes just like we did Saddam.

I agree with you

Is it any wonder that the financial crisis followed the unjustified war and torture scandals. If the law doesn't apply anywhere else why think it would apply to book cooking and financial scams? Until the law of the land applies to everyone we are screwed.

You are right on, there must not be a double standard. All should be Tried for their crimes, starting with Bush and all his henchmen. From top to bottom. This includes the treasonous financial terrorism that has happened under them as well

I voted for Obama and I am discusted with his decision to release these memos. They are top secret for a reason. For those of you that tout the Geneva Conventions...The Geneva Conventions state the prisoner must be wearing a uniform. These terrorists don't wear uniforms. Several have stated that our methods of interrogation increase violence and terror recruits, can any of you substantiate that claim?

Why must all anti-war people blame everything on the Bush Administration? You know, if Clinton would have done his job in the first place, maybe we wouldn't be where we are today - but that is a different topic.

In a perfect little world, yes torture should be banned and criminalized but I hate to break it to you, the world isn't perfect! We need to have the ability to defend ourselves and it is the government's responsibility to give us that kind of protection - by any means possible. Unfortunately it will sometimes require obscene tactics to get information out of these terrorists when they do not cooperate, especially if we caught wind of an imminent attack - but it should be used at a last resort. They need to have waterboarding and other tactics in their bag of tricks in case they ever need it. Torture is horrible to think about, but sometimes it is necessary.

It makes me wonder how the Bush "henchmen" were able to thwart off so many attacks the last 7 years.

It makes me wonder how the Bush "henchmen" were able to thwart off so many attacks the last 7 years.

Thrawt what attacks? The pet goat attacks as outlined in his favorite book?

OH MAN WOW!!! That was a good one! I about fell out of my chair! You should do your own stand-up Stone!!!

Wow, Dorfy, Let's see you mentioned the Geneva Convention, which only pertains to prisoners of war. Then Marquis D'sade as if torture in this case would gratify the CIA. Then it was George W. who was freeing us all from oppression, by being an oppressor himself. Well, Al Queda is not at war with us and the Geneva terms don't apply! Just like Gitmo, those a--holes want a speedy and fair trial, they're acting as though they are citizens or common criminals. These people are terrorists, enemies of our country, the bad guy, remember that World Trade Center thing, etc. Al Queda has not declared war on us, although they are a threat to not only America but to anyone who is not a Muslim. Couldn't be any more racist, could it? They ( Al Queda ) are to busy denying human rights, blowing up non-radical Islamic or public schools, prohibiting young women from being educated, systematically taking the young males to be recruited as suicide bombers in Jihad run camps. Since they are no longer students, Al Queda is brainwashing them into " leathal Stuntmen ", all of this, hiding behind the name of Allah. No, Al Queda becomes this infectous parasite on a nation, check out whats going on now in Pakistan. Let me ask you Dorfy, and I don't want a," that don't make it right response to the question" answer. Since you clearly know what has been done wrong, what would you do with these killers that are caught?

John Lynch,

Let's get open up the courts then and try:

President Eisenhower for the Bay of Pigs incident (he authorized it after all)

President Eisenhower for Gary Power's overflight of the Soviet Union.

President Kennedy for overflying Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis, getting at least one Air Force pilot killed.

President Johnson for starting the Vietnam War (Gulf of Tonkin incident)

President Nixon for whatever you choose.

President Ford for the Mayaguez recapture.

President Carter for the botched hostage rescue when he refused to go forward.

President Regan for Grenada.

President Bush for not supporting the Kuwati in time to prevent Saddam from invading.

and President Clinton for not getting bin Laden when he was offered him up on a gold platter.

John Lynch,

Let's get open up the courts then and try:

President Eisenhower for the Bay of Pigs incident (he authorized it after all)

President Eisenhower for Gary Power's overflight of the Soviet Union.

President Kennedy for overflying Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis, getting at least one Air Force pilot killed.

President Johnson for starting the Vietnam War (Gulf of Tonkin incident)

President Nixon for whatever you choose.

President Ford for the Mayaguez recapture.

President Carter for the botched hostage rescue when he refused to go forward.

President Regan for Grenada.

President Bush for not supporting the Kuwati in time to prevent Saddam from invading.

and President Clinton for not getting bin Laden when he was offered him up on a gold platter.

Hey, this release of this information is ALL about politics. It is being used as a diversion from his socialist goals and current international failure. As to the economy, the Dems had control of Congress for two years. Franks and Dodd should be put in prison for their role in the current crisis or at least for sheer stupidity. And as to torture, what the Vietnamese did to the POWs was torture not this fluff-stuff. Most folks think a day without their iPod and cell phone is torture. The world is laughing at us now. Satisfied? By the way, Clinton is STILL an a$$h*le. Nixon did wrong, but he was at least respected in the international community, even feared. Even the French president calls Obama naive.

The neo conservative keeps saying that Obama is a socialist, maybe you should go back and read your history book to really know what a socialist is, and stop believing the Shawn Hannity, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bernie Goldberg, and all of the rest of the folks flaunting that "socialist" attitude around. If you look at the tea bagger party it appeared to be more about bigorty and hate mongering than anything else.

The American people are tired of the hostile rheotric that's going no where, but tearing the country apart. Remember, read your history books ya'll hear.

Why should we blame Bush for the economy? We should blame ourselves for abusing credit, for just sitting back and let our country get itself in the mess that we are in. Or the companies that hired illegal aliens for the sake of the almighty dollar or how about us for voting in the politicians on both sides of the isle who allowed all this to happen during the early stages way before Bush.

We need to be accountable as a nation, not use a man as a scapegoat who had allot of crap to deal during his presidency. I like to see those who are quick to point there fingers deal with what he dealt with before they pass judgment.

Let’s look at ourselves as a whole.

Hey, stat, have you noticed (you haven't, becuase you weren't told to) that the same people that went after Clinton for Whitewater (many years in the past) are many of the ones now calling on us to forget the past and look to the future? We should put as much dilligence in investigating the Shrub as we did in investigating Clinton. When it's over, if they ordered or okayed torture, they should be in Ft Leavenworth, KS, making small stones out of large ones. Look at the bright side, we'll save lots of money on the no longer necessary Secret Service detachment. The prison guards will be his security detachment.

Straight up EGlide who is asking us to look to the future? I don't know cuz I ain't been told. But if you really think the Clintons are clean with Whitewater remember they were all but bankrupt when they left office. You go ahead and believe,because you were told too, about Bill's Monicka cigar BS. EGlide my azz, you humpin' a Honda Shadow!

Whats worse? Screwing an intern or screwing up the whole country? I think Bush did far worse.. Screwing up an entire country and screwing us over internationally. I think Clinton fairs way better on this debate.. He did not make us look like complete and totally hateful bastards to the rest of the world. Lets water-board every on that thinks it is not torture 6 times a day for 30 days.. Then we'll do another poll.

So you must of watched A Few Good Men - Tom Cruise - you can't handle the truth.

To serve my country is my patriotic duty - if an officer told me to torture - I would questions the validity - but because my president - whom I have sworn my patriotic duty to tells me that legally it is not torture - then what is your answer - be tried as a traitor? Put in prison for the rest of your life and be spit upon by your fellow servicemen and women. So, it's okay to take the high moral ground when your not faced with repercussions. It's easy for us to say - yeah!! Hang them all! But you weren't there and neither was I so what we see as a simple answer - it is not.

reply to DEBEKI; I have served, it was in the Marine Corp.. I don't know if you have or not but by your response I feel comfortable to say you have. You describe fairly clearly the obligation to follow orders to the letter and without hesitation. Dire consequences will result if you do not. It is up to the superiors to do all the questioning about the legality of it's content. This is much like the responsibility of the civilian base to question any Leader fully before sending our young men and women into harms way.

I'm sure Saddam Hussein's patriots all felt the very same way and why are we in Iraq today and that deck of cards... weren't they all just doing their duties and following orders too? I guess you actually have to have a brain and able to know your own rights and wrongs and how to be a good american and not just another criminal following orders. I would not have broken the law and although I may have gone to jail for not breaking laws as I was told to do, I would have been exonerated and a martyr for a higher and much more noble cause... Defending our American Constitution to the letter even against our own law breakers!

Also to DEBEKI; you did not swear an oath to the President, but rather to the Constitution. If you have served you know that. If given an order you do not consider legal, you are required by the military to carry them out or to ask for those orders in writing. The officer writing those orders is then accepting responsibility for them and you must carry them out. I doubt very much that this is the way the CIA operates, though.

AMEN. brother. Well spoken

I am a combat veteran with a CIB and two Air Medals. I have no desire to see my country defeat the enemy by becoming the enemy.

I don't blame the military I blame the Bush administration; politicians starts wars not the military they just carry out the orders.

Well said Rodant

Mary, you should not be blaming the Bush administration for anything. One, waterboarding is not torture. Two, the 9/11 commission clearly stated that the Islamo-fascist were at war with the USA and that the Clinton Administration had been ignoring that fact (as is the Hussein Obama administration). Also, the person here Khalid Shaikh Mohammed has taken credit for cutting off the head of Daniel Pearl. Pour water over the head of a murdering terrorist is not torture, it is an effective means of getting information.

Well said Fred. Thank God we still have some people with brains in this country.

Freda-517796 is 100% correct. We wouldn' be having this conversation if we weren't attacked by these goons. They burn and drag our soldiers on the ground. Where is your patriottism people. You will be crying for our military & CIA to step in and protect you WHEN we are attacked again.

Right on, Fred. Well said.

Fred,

Thanks for justifying the actions of those Islamist crazies in your last sentence. The 9/11 hijackers fit the description in your last sentence to a "T."

They were in the midst of committing a crime. It is of absolutely no comparison. They were shot because they gave no other choice. Obama was right, Bush was and is a war criminal period and a traitor to the American Constitution. An office he gave his biblical and political oath to uphold. He broke every law in the book period.

That was a different situation altogether we didn't go out there and start a war nor did we toture their pirates we handled the situation at hand. The Iraq war was totally different.

Mikela and Mary-528112 both appear to be very opinionated Democrats leaning toward the socialists side. I truely feel sorry for people like you, but spent over 20 years defending your right to your opinion and mine.

We're after their bosses back as well. All of them.

Exactly, milela. We need to get to the source of the problem: Cheney, Rumsfeld, Yoo, et al. And not just for torture. Also domestic spying in clear violation of existing FISA law. I think it's a package deal. Out them all.

They learned from Nixon not to protect their subordinates.

Not if you do something illegal. Ask G. Gordon Liddy.

The CIA is not subject to the UCMJ. They sought legal advice from the US Department of Justice as to what constituted torture under the law and were told to what limits they could go. They stayed within those limits so therefore did not commit any crimes to be prosecuted for. Congress disagreed with the legal interpretation and changed the law to specifically remove water-boarding and limit harsh interrogation to the Army Field Manual rules. The system worked.

You have a poor moral compass when it equates cutting off someones hand (Saddam) with slapping someone in the face (US). One is torture and the other is not.

Number one, there was no torture. Calling waterboarding "torture" does not make it torture.

Number two, these were not "suspected" terrorists, but actual terrorists.

Number three, what part of the Constitution was violated?

Number four, Saddam was overthrown because his regime was in defiance of numerous U.N. resolutions. Why were there inspectors 12 years after the First Gulf war was over? There were of course no contracts with Russia, Siria, etc. as there was an U.N. sanctioned embargo against Iraq.

So stop lying.

Thzt is absolute BS, An if you are a Military Officer, you know better.
I was a marine in Viet Nam, what you just said, was that you did not and would not, support your troops, when it gets tight.
One f the differences, between the Marine Corps and the rest were we always knew our officers would be there for us.
The Corps brought every body out including the dead.
If you are a military officer, you know that all of the nonsense the half assed jerks are talking about are not even close to torture.
people who sit back pass judgement and downgrade the people you force to do the dirty work.It;s a shame that we have to live in the same country, with you.
Unfortunately, living in free country means we have to give even hand wringing little pansies freedom of speech and allow them to speak ill of the very people, that allow them to spout garbage. You'll have a good time, some day we'll get tired of deaking with pansies like you and take appropriate measures.
The thing that really frosts me, is you don't really care, it's just an opportunity, to say Bush did it.

I agree with you, Jerry. For all who equate our service members interrogating these "emeny combatants" as criminals, are thumbing your noses to all members of our armed services as mindless idiots following any input command. As veteran myself, I remember being told that if we were given an illegal command, we were to follow orders and report the alleged crime afterwards. There is a process in place to ensure we follow the law. We must be able to trust our commanders as they have obiviously more time-in-service than we have. Oh, as reporting a concern also comes under using the chain-of-command.

To all of my fellow smart vets and servicemembers keep in mind that the civilian world may never understand the military way of life. And after reading some of those documents, I realized those "terrorists" are being treated better I was in boot camp. They had SERE professionals who understand when things could get out of hand. They should know because our special forces opertives are treated degrees worse than these misunderstood jihadist criminals. And everyone forget about international law. Our laws here in the US suffice to dictate what is legal or not. The interrogators indicated in writing they have been following US Codes and stated full understanding of the difference between interrogation and torture. I see those who torture as ones who enjoy the suffering of others. From what I understand, torture doesn't provide solid actionable intelligence as one will say anything to have the pain stopped. Oh by the way, if our service members and commanders should be investigated, the our civilian law enforcement officials should be as well. They interrogate, therefore they are obiviously breaking international law somewhere.

Others who actually think should bear in mind that there is no reaching some who are just blind to everything around them. I just hope our elected officials aren't becoming a threat to our national security. Realing these documents are possibly worse than what the NYT has done in the past years. Disclosure of classified information improperly is a crime and considered treasonous. And as far I as I understand, the punishment for treason is death. Correct me if I'm wrong or just crazy.

Now, whose talking BS?

Put it plain and simple .These terrorist are bent on the total destruction of our nation, no matter what it took, with no regard for the innocent. Why would should we be light on them.

I wonder if we did not use these means and this nation did get attacked again, would this nation blame Bush. They sure would.

In terms of comparing bush to the Nazis, not even close. The Nazis killed and tortured innocent people. Who are the people we were interrogating. People with a mission to kill the innocent

Lets not forget 911 when Bush went after the Taliban; I bet most of the Bush bashers did not care what it took.

I believe Dan-1034340 was at least in the military, and probably was an officer as stated.

As for Jerry-352313, I doubt he ever served, or if he did he was an in and out enlistee that did it for the money that never paid much attention in the classes in basic and probably never saw any real action, but wanted to badly.

Anyone with any sort of real military intel training knows that torture yields nothing useful. Routinely you waste a bunch of time chasing ghosts because the tortured tell you any damn thing you want to hear to make the pain stop.

I served during that nasty CF in Lebanon. They found out who did what and when without torturing anyone and didn't create any new bad guys either.

Well said Jerry. I served of the AF and what Dan stated here is a complete load of crap and I do not believe that he served either. What was done to these terrorist at Gitmo was not torture. Having water poured over your head and being slapped or being kept awake is not torture. Having you fingers or hands or arms or feet cut off is torture. Being electrocuted of set on fire or being whipped or having bamboo shoved under you finger and toe nails is torture. Calling this stuff torture is just another lie meant to hurt the USA in the eye's of the world. If you leftist want the USA to be liked by all the countries in the world stop lying to them about us. Liberals do more harm to the USA than they can possible imagine by constantly lying about us.

Well said Jerry,and Proud Veteran. Thanks

Dan is absolutely correct, if a trooper knows an order is illegal it is his duty not to obey it.

If history is correct the winners of wars are not tried. It will be the liberal idiots of our own country that would prosecute people trying to protect them.

We as Americans defined water-boarding as torture when it was applied by other countries to our soldiers. Also, hanging a prisoner by his hands from a ceiling is also torture unless you don't consider crucifixion torture. They have the same effect on the human body except that the Romans left them to die. That's what the Bush administration did in our name and now we have to listen to the right wing nuts whine about us liberals. Suck it up - the pendulum has swung.

We cannot defeat our enemy by acting like them.

I totally agree. The ones that backed out should be commended and brought back into service. *claps*

Uh huh, and when they refuse a lawful order and the individual is prosecuted, you'll be right there, applauding.

But ya see, they knew lawful and unlawful and left their positions under the administration. You cannot be legally ordered to do anything illegal. Just because your boss tells you to do something or your fired or will be punished does not mean you jump on the wagon. You know right from wrong period.

How dare you compare Bush with the Nazi’s!!!. The Nazi’s were hell bent on destroying the Jewish race .Women and children included.

What is Al-Qaida’s mission? To destroy the United States Women and children as well. Did Bush interrogate the innocent? No, He interrogated those who are sworn enemy’s of the USA. Those who raised arms against the innocent of the United States. To protect both you and I. Are we to kiss them on there hand. It don’t matter THERE MISSION IS TO DESTORY US

Do ya think that WW2 was just one by guns and bombs? Did the people of the United States and our allies really cared about how the war was one. All they cared about that the war was over and they were no longer threatened.

How did those Bush Bashers felt when 911 went down? They were probably behind Bush 100%. No matter what it took? Get those terrorist Mr. Bush

I wonder what you would have said about Bush if this nation got attacked again during his presidency. You would probably bash him for not doing a good enough job protecting this nation.

But Oh well. This is what happens to us when we put God on the back burner as a nation.