Should Bush administration officials who devised harsh interrogation tactics and provided legal cover for them be prosecuted?

You are one sad, pathetic excuse for a human being. I never believed in abortion, but in your case, I'd make an exception. You are about the stupidest, moronic excuse for an individual I have ever seen make an idiotic comment online.

Let me ask you a question? What if one of your family members had been in the World

Trade Center? Wouldn't you want Justice done or would you want to pat them on the

hand and let them go. You are dealing with individuals who wouldn't hesitate to kill you

or me or any other American.

As if you ever traveled around the world! Perhaps, Americans should begin to be concerned with America and not cow-towing to every whine we hear around the globe. Obama is right. We need to improve our schools dramatically so that "educated" people will shape this country and not moronic self-absorbed "chosen ones", like the Chancellor himself. If America was educated, Obama never would have won a single primary. Churchill was correct in his assessment that every citizenry gets the government they deserve. Those of you who voted for Obama are going to suffer economic pain never imaginable. We, as a country deserve this!

What are you talking about? You have forgotten 9/11? Americans are naiive- its what the world has been saying. I am an American with Chinese heritage and I can tell you that the thought process of most of the liberals in this country are the reason we are naiive and stupid. It is a very dangerous world out there, do not think and act with too much silly emotions. Study human history with an open mind and you will know what I am talking about. Do not listen to those media who is so bias its not even funny. And by the way,if America is so bad, why are there so many people all over the world who cannot wait to come here? THINK.

Al,

What country are you living in? Do you not recall the other bombings--including the ones carried out by President Obama's neighbor and friend, Bill Ayers? Can you not remember the hostages taken during Jimmy Carter's term?

Many of us do not care what the rest of the world thinks of us!! What country always helps out when Al Qaeda or other extremists try to take over a country--is is France, Spain, Turkey, etc. Is there a continous history of millions immigrating (legally and illegally) to other countries for freedom? What other country gives more aid, financially, militarily, medically, etc. Do other countries travel thousands of miles and give free healthcare, housing, etc. more than the U.S?

Get over President Bush! How long will this administration blame him for EVERYTHING that is wrong with our economy? President Obama's agenda is much more about changing America so that the government controls most of it--as he is proceeding to do with the banks now, healthcare on the agenda, wealth distribution (i.e. taking from those who work and giving to those who don't), etc. I, TOO, BELIEVE THERE ARE MILLIONS THAT DO DESERVE HELP RIGHT NOW---but there are GENERATIONS of families who've CHOSEN to be on welfare instead of working. (I have examples in my own family).

Did President Obama fulfill his pledge to : go line by line over the budget, eliminate ALL EARMARKS, give America 2-5 days to view bills BEFORE they were voted on? Please answer these questions--and I don't think he can blame these unfilled promises by blaming former President Bush. No one kept him from speaking or fulfilling these promises. I don't remember him explaining why he didn't do what he promised to do either.

To even let the thought that the World Trade Center attack would not have happened shows a gimongus lack of anything resembling smarts. It happened BEFORE all of this happened. The cult is people who want to think that everything is someone elses fault. Victims of society. Jobless, lacking ambition, wanting everything but unwilling to put forth any effort to get it. Pretty much not of any real use as a citizen except to blame and cry foul. I've been around the world and the same kinds of people hate us out there. Resentful, sorry, unhappy, lacking people. Victims like you.  :O) Have a nice day.

GEE, I wonder what Clinton did to have had all the attacks against the U.S. on his watch! When WE were attacked, Bush hadn't been office long enough to p.i.s.s. anyone off. If your family was attacked and KILLED in your home what would you do to find out who they were. WE don't cut off their heads and torture ANYONE you moron! BUT I tell you one thing, I DO know how to stop terrorism. You tell the world that if you commit a terrorist act against this country and we know who is responsible and we cant find you, we will go after your family bloodline and KILL every man,woman & child. Your dog to. You WILL BE PUNISHED!!! If that dont work, GLAZE 'EM!!! Heat and sand make glass. GLAZE 'EM!! Then tell the world "next"! We have to many spineless wussys for that. If you want to prosecute someone prosecute and impeach that S.O.B.ama. He has already commited treason.

Don't you realize these tactics were employed after 9/11 (when the towers were destroyed by terrorists)?  Maybe if Clinton had taken terrorism more seriously 9/11 could have been prevented.  Too me, Obama is way too naive.  Look at all the buzz Chavez created just by handing him a book!

You Have no sence of Histroy. You can not play nice with people that have only the death of our country and its pople. Ask The people how tryied it with Hilter. It does not work. The only crimes that are being commited is by the Dems. in DC beacuse they are destroying our County with there socialist program that is the crime. Grow UP.

Just some info Mat, the terrorists who attacked us during the Clinton administration were not only caught, but prosecuted.......can't say the same for the Bush tactics.

Unlike some persons that are willing to skip the deliberations and jump straight to punishment, I would withhold my judgement until other issues have been resolved. Does the President have the legal power to make exceptions when were are at peace or at war? Can the President invoke executive priviledge to protect those that participate? Lastly, is there legal precident that must be followed (were those responsible for imprisoning persons during WWII prosecuted?).

I like to approach these types of questions from a strict constitutional perspective, innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not in the press.

To Patriot- you are the poster child for what ails this country. Right, "kill them all" Brilliant! I bet you even have a cabinet full of guns.

you are a doofus. The interrogation methods used are no different than what OUR OWN special forces units use on themselves to familiarize them with the tactic. We gained valuable info that saved lives. If we are gonna due that, then lets go back and fry all the living TRUMAN admin people for dropping the bomb, or Kennedy admin people for the Bay of Pigs, or clinton for Malfeasance in office for allowing Saudi Arabia to let loose Bin Laden in 1998.........What a bunch of flaming idiots you are. this is all political rankoring. Pelosi and Reid and the intell committees of both the Hose and Senate approved these tactics, now they want to say they knew nothing about it. they are either lying or are completly incompetent. Either way, they should go. Pelosi is a cancer in teh nation and Reid is a complete bumbling idiot............

Those that think that waterboarding is cruel, what do you think of beheadings, killing and publicly burning the corpse, beatings causing permanent loss of use of limbs, roadside bombings with IEDs, homicide bombers and the other horrors that our people have been been subjected to. Remember the WTC, The USS Cole, The Marine barracks in Beirut, The Embasies in Africa, The Railway bombings in Spain, the gas attack on the Japaneese Subway, the constant attacks by terrorists on Israel ... If hooking a car bartery to some terrorists genitals would save American lives I'd have to say Red is Positive, Black is Ground.

.

Don't you think there are more important things to focus on then how much Bush is hated and the witch hunt to "get him?" Do you really believe that if we play nice with the dictators of the world, they are going to be all warm and fuzzy with the USA? The dislike for the USA goes back a long way. Oh and by the way, do you all remember the fear that you had during the time of the attacks? Do you remember the victims of the attacks? Do you remember the terrorists? Remember that they are the bad guys? I guess too much time has gone by and the victims are all but forgotten, and hatred has taken the place of sorrow. What will feel if we get attacked again, hatred? For whom?

It is people like YOU who "ail" this country!!! IF you attack someone EXPECT the next move LIB!!! And you have no idea how MANY cabinets bud. If you socialist dont like this country, get the hell out and live in europe. Spend some time there and see how you like it. This country is going to hell because of people LIKE YOU!!!!!!

Al, you can not be serious, right! If so, then you need to start mixing your toothpaste with your shampoo because you obviously have developed a cavity in your brain. How asinine of a statement is this. GWB was only in his 8th month (not year...you dummy) when 9/11 occurred. If memory services me right it was in 1993 (during BJ Clinton's term...waaaay before GWB) that the first Twin Tower terrorist attack occurred. If any one is to blame, BJ "Have a Cigar" Clinton would be the one to take out your stupid blame on. I have had about as much as I can stand from libs like you who denigrate and slander the memory of the 3000 Americans killed on that tragic day. Harsh mesuares were needed and rightfully taken. You libs are more concerned with the well being of scum-bag terrorist than your own fellow Americans. I just wish you libs could all be shipped off to that wonderful paradise known as the Middle East. You libs don't even realize how much these Islamo-Fascist hate you. Your heads would be the first to be lopped off (and good riddance to you all). You libs are completely detestable! Remember, your prez. is history in 4 years. Becareful what you wish for, once us convervatives are back in power (I forsee a major power shift in 2010) we will punish you libs for all your transgressions. You remember that lib! We will PUNISH all of you!

You know Al, if they prosecute those in the Bish administration, then they'll be obligated to go after those in the field. Following orders didn't work for Lt. Calley in Mi Lai and won't work now. In the end, we'll cut off our noses to spite our faces. When we need people in the service or actual good people in office, they won't come. No one will join the military unless drafted and some not even then. We sent two Border Petrolmen to prison and it had such a negative impact on the Border Patrol that ads for jobs came out that had never been seen before. Imagine what effect trials for these so-called tortures will do.

Let's look at what was done. Waterboarding-pouring just enough water onto a person's face to give the impression of drowning. Frightening but not lethal or physically harmful. Humiliation and intimidation-wears one down, also not lethal or physically harmful. Sleep deprivation-harmful if overused. You can't interrogate a dead person or a comatose one. It defeats the purpose of the interrogation. Suppose this captive had information vital to keeping your son or daughter alive and unharmed. What would you do to get it? Would you try to get it or let your kids and someone elses die so you wouldn't look bad?

Now compare these tactics to the sort of tactics used against our troops. VietNam-pulled out fingernails, poured active Lime on bare skin, beatings, hot boxes, hypothermia. All physcially harmful and potentially lethal. Middle East-beatings, overexposure to the Sun, rape for female captives, waking captives, telling them they are to be shot and pulling the trigger on an empty gun at their head (Iranian hostages, not even military). Last one not lethal but able to cause a psychotic break, the former two harmful and lethal.

All in all, most of the interrogation tactics used are not much worse than SEALS, Rangers and Recon endure. If you want to see torture, watch The Evil Than Men Do starring Charles Bronson. It illustrates real techniques used in other lands. Better yet, study WWII and the tactics used by Germany.

Do you not recall the other bombings--including the ones carried out by President Obama's neighbor and friend, Bill Ayers?

You forgot to mention the bombing carried out by Republican Tim McVeigh.

You libs don't even realize how much these Islamo-Fascist hate you.

And you don't realize how much you have in common with them.

All activities were cleared by FMs and Lawyers. If it was leagal you cant go back and jail one over a legal issue.

End of story.

We should be very careful upon what some of you are saying, with out being or living in a third world country to see what goes on, you have no idea and are just bashing the last guys becasue you didnt like tehm. I think a lot of the people coming up today have lost site of a lot of things that they take for granted and don't understand the cost someone payed for that. Ask yourself are you willing to give your life today for your contry! If the answer yes go join a branch of service, till then read above and shut up..

You cannot even spell the word "definitely". What in the world would you know about laws.

So, what liberal teachers blew smoke up your behind for you to get so screwed up?

Destroyer - Since the Sorros group did not allow you to remember, does the name "Gitmo" mean anything to you? The story last week about the water boarding of the "mastermind" behind the 9/11 attacks? Remember that one? The precision strikes hitting houses in Iran and Afghanistan? Remember the pretty pictures on your TV to hate Bush by? Could these action not be considered "prosecuting" the criminals? If they're dead, they loose their will to attack. Oh, that's right, unless some judge puts them in Colorado for the rest of their lives, their not "prosecuted". At least Bush didn't bomb an aspirin factory in retribution of bombing of embassies in order to avoid prosecution for actual crimes. Good old Bill Clinton, your hero - one of only 2 Impeached Presidents in the History of the Republic.

I hate to tell you but the planning for 9/11 was done during the Clinton era. Bush protected this country. Some hard decissions had to be made. Obama does not do that and it will cost the USA later.

I hate to tell you but the planning for the WTC Towers was made during the Clinton era. Bush protected this country and now we have a President that is going back to let those peolpe who want to kill us to be free again. Obama has done more to hurt the security of this country than any President in history. What will happen next?

So we want to continue to divide this country of Dems against the Reps. Congress knew what was going on so how far down the food chain do we push this. The President wants to heal things with places like Cuba and Iran so why can't we try to heal things in our own country first? I know both sides will start the name calling and wishing awful things to happen to both sides and that will just be the beginning. There are so many things that need attention in this country now so please stop trying to hurt your friends and neighbors.

gmainco, please don't shout. (Turn off the bold, thank you.)

Congress knew and approved - maybe we should hang all of them high, too? Mr. Obama, you have certainly opened the proverbial Pandora's box this time.....

Bob Nelson.

I did it on purpose as I think it needs to be shouted to everyone.

By the way my Mother's maiden name was Nelson. They were from Illinois orginally but moved to Wyo.

ONLY the f'ing libs could make the f'ing terrorists f'ing victims....you forget 911? You forget how Americans are treated? Get over it.

gmainco, when the Dems get their hand out of my pocket then we can start discussing the healing process.

gmainco, Heal things, with Cuba and Iran??? Sorry my friend, but you are wrong on this one. How can any healing begin with these countries when they are being run by either communist thugs or Islamo-Fascist mullahs? Do you know that these countries have thousands of people imprisoned simply for what they "think" and "believe" in? Obama should do like every other President before him and say, "great, you want to open up a dialogue with us, then open your jails and free ALL dissidents". But of course he didn't (and look how Iran thanks his gesture...they imprison an American journalist for EIGHT years on some trumped up, bogus charge of spying...open your eyes man...these people can not be negotiated with...they need to be DESTROYED, like all good dictators). My gosh man, what concessions is Obama asking of these despots (answer: absolutely NONE)? This isn't leadership, this is simply pandering to the lowest elements in the world and you people suck up this Obama ruse like its manna from heaven! Personally, and this is my opinion only, I think Obama is perfectly comfortable surrounding himself with these tin-pot dictators because he is cut from the same cloth. He identifies with their way of thinking and their leadership (I guarantee, time will prove me right on this one). Think about it, he could care less about the freedom fighting people locked away in these $h*t hole prisons (has he even mentioned once about the human rights violations committed by these lug-nuts...of course not, he can only concern himself with the silly fraternity style hazing committed against terrorist murderers housed in Abu Graib or Gitmo..."Oh my, what are the Europeans going to think of us now"). Wake up libs, only time will prove that you people are on the wrong side of history! And when it does, we are NOT going to let you live it down.

fliberchick,

There is a big difference in the Republican (?) Timothy McVeigh--who was not known to ANY REPUBLICAN president ----and terrorist Bill Ayers who had many connections to Barack Obama:

1. Political fundraiser for (then) Mr. Obama in Mr. Ayers home

2. both connected to ACORN; served on a committee together, etc. ACORN is still under investigation for voter fraud (or something of that nature). I believe Mr. Obama was ACORN'S attorney/trainer.

3. Their relationship was AFTER Bill Ayers committed these bombing crimes!!

4. They live in the same neighborhood.

people who give up freedom for saftey do not deserve either.

You worthless bleeding heart liberals are going to get all of us Americans killed!! 99% of you who are responding by calling "Bush" people guilty forget two very important facts: we are at war with terrorists, and for the last two years, congress was controlled by "Democrats" who were well aware of any interrogation tactics used by our intelligence agencies.  You people make me ill!!

In the beginning of World War Two we persicuted Japanese Americans because of the attack on Pearl Harbor. We arrested them and placed them in concentration camps mostly on the west coast. German and Italian Americans were not placed in these camps. They were treated like every day citizens that they were.

After this attack on the World Trade Center Towers that terrrist had promised to bring down. Thousands of unsuspecting people were murdered. This was done because certain Arabs did not like our political agenda as Americans.

Nothing happen to the Arabs in America. Other than the relatives of Osama bin Laden who were living in the Nort East USA. At the very least they should have been placed in protective custody. We know that there are still terrorist cells in the USA and Canada.

This was a time of distrust and dismay. Most of the perpetrators of 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia. An Arab country that was suposed to be an ally. These were times of war, sometimes we don't think correctly when we are at war. For me I think we should have deported all Arabs back to their home lands.

They are taught to hate All North Americans in their schools. I think Barack Obama should not publisize all his meetings with Government. He is trying to create an International Image. I agree we should try and do someting but we need to be careful.

pastol,

You asked for promises President Obama made that he hasn't kept: 1. he'd go line by line over any budget, 2. He'd allow No Earmarks, and 3. He'd have bills posted online 2-5 days for everyone to read BEFORE it was voted on.

Presently, he said he and Rahm Emanuel said (in last few days) that no Bush Admin. (incl. CIA) would be prosecuted for what Obama's admins. believes COULD POSSIBLY believe was 'TORTURE" (i.e. waterboarding). TODAY, ONCE AGAIN OUR PRESIDENT AND HIS OTHER 'TALKING HEADS" STATE THEY MAY INDEED SEEK PROSECUTION FOR THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS ADVISERS ABOUT WATERBOARDING. I'm so glad President Obama is living us to the promise of bringing all America "together".

Our country is in financial, political mess--dealing with REAL enemies who: hijack our ships (Somali), imprison our citizens (Iran); blame us for their drug problem (Mexico); may be readying missiles to attack us on our soil (China), Al Qaeda, etc. Meanwhile, our President is "making nice" to rogue, dictatorial leaders. WE NEED TO BE PULLING TOGETHER AS A COUNTRY--WE ARE AMERICANS; WE HAVE IT BETTER THAN ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

We need to plead with our leaders in Washington and all over our country to PLEASE stop with POLITICS AS USUAL. These times are not usual. We are Americans. CONGRESS NEEDS TO LEARN TO WORK TOGETHER. IF THEY CAN'T, WE NEED TO GET RID OF EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM THAT REFUSES TO TRY. It's not "Selling Out'', but making our country as we know it can be.

#1.6

Just some info Mat, the terrorists who attacked us during the Clinton administration were not only caught, but prosecuted.......can't say the same for the Bush tactics.

Did you forget about the USS Cole attack? Never found, never brought to justice under Clinton. It was under Bush during the War on Terror that these terrroists were found and put in GITMO, but hey they may get another shot when released. Want to retract your mis-information?

you need to remember that the terrorists attacked many times before making the great impact they did with the sucessful attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. There was the USS Cole, the first attack on the World Trade Center, Attacks on several Embasy's. They attacked England and several other countries. This was not brought on by Bush, this was not perpertrated by the United States and to say so is absolutely agregious!!!! Obama says that it is not right to label them with titles like Terrorist and that they should not be held for trials as terrorist but under the US Constitution, as a matter of fact he released a slew of them back into the world. And now he says he is toying with the idea that the Bush administration and the CIA should be prosecuted for their attempts (sucessful I might add, we are the only Country that has not been re-attacked since 9/11) to keep the American people safe. If you think this Country is so out of line in protecting its self you are more than welcome to leave...

Kudos Karen; I like your spunk!

bush & Chenny so be on trail for all the blood that left women men 7 childern dead or injury for life. The our the two main persons on top that statred of this. i need to be tried & put in the fed prison for good alone witj macian hie dad & borther. if they was not in the wite house act as a u.s.a leader this who never happen. They our 1000% qutie of there action. Mr obama you told the pople of the u.s.a that you would being them to trail let see if you will stand to you word. A reel man would stand on there word you have so far i hope you keep doing it please dont back dow now. I willy starting to belive in you more i hope i can stand up & say that we got a true pres in the withe houes now. So plese don't let me down or the mii of pople in u.s.a. I will stand there with you as long you being the bush & chenny to trail & send them to prison for rest of the lives.

the really sad thing about these "what if the terrorists came to your house" statements is that the chances of anybody, on american soil, being harmed by a "terrorist" is as small as getting hit by a shark. But your chances of having the police mistake you for a criminal and shoot you in front of your kids, in your own home, are much greater. but this is the best country in the world right?

Yes it is tallbirds ... best country in the world, bare none.

I understand your stats about the chances of everyday Americans being harmed by a terrorist, but I'll bet the families of over 2,000 Americans killed in NY and the fields of PA might tend to challenge your scoring.

Why would the police be in someone's home mistaking someone for a criminal? Where did that happen?

You are a very ill-informed and stupid person. This country will pay a heavy price for the liberal thoughts of people like you and the so-called leader you put into office.

Oh joy another bleeding heart liberal democrat! The rest of the world had lost respect for this country long before either Bush was voted in. The rest of the world that lost their respect for this country with Bush are the ones that thought they could push us around like they did when clinton was in office. Why wasn't anything done about the terrosist situation that when clinton was in office? Had all the intel and could have done something about it then.

I am a former Marine and I can't stand what all the Democrats like to do to the safety of this country. Cut, cut, cut some more, whittle defense down to nothing. Hey Bush wasn't perfect but at least he didn't just stand there with his thumb you know where. Some of it may have been wrong but by God he took the right kind of action.

I find it amusing how repubs are always saying "how long will you persecute Bush?" when ya'all were blaming 9/11 on Clinton. I don't recall Obama calling the Bush Admin terrorists, I'm thinking it was some comment written saying that.

Hey gcerny12 did you realize that Obama increased the military budget? I tend to vote Dem but I was all for going to war after 9/11, blow the F*@# out of them!, for the right reasons and the correct country. Sure Hussain was a tyrrant, but there's plenty of others in the world that are as much if not more vicious. We needed to focus on Afghanistan not trying to finish off Daddy's war. Did you realize that about 6 months after 9/11 Bush stated that looking for Bin Ladin was a waste of his time?

So if the GOP can persecute Clinton for playing with cigars, while they were cheating too, then, if they really did commit illegal acts, I'll stand by the persecution of the Bush camp for as long as it takes.

Oh and the Chavez picture, yes the guy is horrible, I know people that live there, I know 1st hand what he does. But Obama greeted 33 other leaders and that was the only picture really shown. If you watch the footage Chavez pretty much forced the 2 greetings, Obama was cordial and then brushed him off. "Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer" Sun-tzu

Hey MOHAMMAD...Or Hammerhead, Nobody gives a sh_t about what you think...A__Hole!!!

Al,

Yes the world will tell us what they think and thanks to President Obama's I'm sorry tour, they are laughing their heads off and think we are all weak, un-American, anti-Christian, don't know what's going on people, who bemoan the state of our economy yet continue to spend like there is no tomorrow for ridiculous things such as 'global warming' when scientist after scientist has emphatically stated it is NOT MAN MADE. It is strange that our President will sign a bill for trillions of dollars and then come back the next week and ask us all to try and live within our means and that we might have to give more to the government to make it through this fiasco he is creating. President Bush may have left with our country in debt, but nothing like what has gone on this past couple of months.

Also, how about the new definition of 'volunteerism'. Now it means, we will pay you to step forward instead of doing it out of the kindness of your heart. Another typical maneuver to get people hooked on government aid at the working person's expense.

Feel what????

To all of you who think that the waterboarding and other tactics were so bad that we should prosecute people in our government, I am curious as to why you don't feel that Obama should be prosecuted for telling our snipers to kill the 3 Somali pirates???

Al532261.

You obviously are one of Obama's disciples. Calling you an ignorant ass would just be redundant. You've already proved that. You have absolutely no grasp on reality whatsoever. I just returned from Japan(a country that really has a reason to hate us) and believe me you dope-head those people don't. other reply to your idiotic nonsense has pointed out when the first Twin Towers attack occurred. Geez I wish clowns like you would study history before you spout the "party rhetoric."

I have traveled the world before you were born and I never saw the love for America as you seem to think. I do know if you were to get in a disagreement with a local, then you were always guilty before a trial. You go to those good people you think is out there and love them as much as you dislike America.

@ruby

What country always helps out when Al Qaeda or other extremists try to take over a country--is is France, Spain, Turkey, etc.

Sorry, are you 12? do you think its out selflessness that the usa went to iraq and afghanistan? You prolly still think Oswald killed JFK? We didn't go over there to "help", we went to get the oil and play empire.

Is there a continous history of millions immigrating (legally and illegally) to other countries for freedom?

yes, their called the Latin american countries. and after WW2, Europe. and get over yourself, if you wanna get credit for immigration, don't complain about the illegals that your beloved Big Corporation are responsible for bringing in the country in the first place.

What other country gives more aid, financially, militarily, medically, etc.

Well, Sweden, the Netherlands, all of Western Europe, Australia, Canada, Japan, gives more aid per capita. The USA hasn't even got the decency to pay the UN contribution, it had to HOLD ITS HAND UP FOR CHARITY to Ted frikking Turner for that. Oh wait....... you mean, those lucrative defence contracts you use to screw the taxpayer out of their hard earned dollars to give to dictators like Saddam Hussein, Pinochet, Videla Uribe, you call that "Aid?" Let's call it for what it is: A relatively cheap way to maintain the American Empire by letting ruthless butcher do our dirty work.

Do other countries travel thousands of miles and give free healthcare, housing, etc. more than the U.S?

Yes, all European countries, Australia, Canada, Japan. The US only gives under threat of forced adoption and childbearing for 12 year old girls: "Thou shalt not receive a penny unless thou abolishes abortion!!!" thus forcing 12 year old girls in India and Africa to have babies. Because, after all "god will provide" for them. Great way to keep the masses poor and dumb.

See, that's why it's so great that we have a Democrat in the White House: so he can beat the ignorance out of you with better education.

Brian, I notice you don't give any sources for your supposed "facts". Not too surprising, since they aren't true. Except your Per Capita UN comment. Who gives a CRAP about per capita? Look at the UN budget, look at the percentage we pay and come back and tell me that's fair. According to your argument, China and India should be paying a third of the budget, but guess what? they don't. You know why they don't? Because they don't care about per capita either. Ridiculous argument.

jared - Puh-lease, since when do facts come into play when making arguments about how bad the US is? You are only REQUIRED to prove your statements when you argue the other side. I thought the 2008 election campaign taught every one that reality.

so what is the difference between bush saying get us answers anyway you need to without killing them and saving thousands of lives and obama saying shoot to kill 3 pirates and save 1 life?? i mean obama's cabinet says pirates aren't terrorist they are just oppurtunist ciminals not a danger .. do you know the meaning of hypocrit??

Perhaps you would like to share with us the promises he made that he has not kept. Please keep in mind that he has been in office for 3 months of a 4 year term. What exactly did he promise you that he would do in that time that has not been done? Also keep in mind that the financial crisis was not part of the picture during the campaigns. The way it looks to me is that your own racist and ignorance is showing. Please explain it to us with facts instead of the tired triade of a sore loser.

Well put.

The empty rhetoric is not impressing anyone.  Be specific.  This kind of empty headed diatribe is not contributing to the solution.  Have some better ideas? Share them.  Seems this is all we're hearing these days from the republi-can'ts. 

pastol - you're giving BO an awful lot of lattiude. first off, he's is NEVER going to be able to keep a campaign promise with tax cuts, b/c he's insisted on federal bailouts for both the automakers and financial institutions. who do you think is going to pay for all that? EVERYONE who works, even if they make less than $250,000 a year, including our children and grandchildren.

furthermore, as long as BO goes around waving a white flag and apologizing to everyone for America, he's making us look weak.

BO is an arrogant narcissist who has NO concept of morals. every stroke of his pen is illegal b/c he has no right under the Constitution to hold office. he has yet to produce a TRUE birth certificate to PROVE he is a natural born citizen.

since he wants to hold public office so badly, the ONLY part of his life that should be kept private is in the bedroom w/ Michelle.

The empty rhetoric is not impressing anyone.  Be specific.  This kind of empty headed diatribe is not contributing to the solution.  Have some better ideas? Share them.  Seems this is all we're hearing these days from the republi-can'ts. 

Workerbee, it seems to me you've been spending too much time listening to the Fox News network. You might want to do a little research on your own instead of drinking in the crap from the right. From Politifact.com:

There is not one shred of evidence to disprove PolitiFact's conclusion that the candidate's name is Barack Hussein Obama, or to support allegations that the birth certificate he released isn't authentic.

And that's true no matter how many people cling to some hint of doubt and use the Internet to fuel their innate sense of distrust.

Go to PolitiFact.com and search for "Obama's Birth Certificate: The Final Chapter" and read it for yourself.

Oh, and by the way. Arrogant people typically don't apologize to anyone. Smart people realize when an error has been made and takes the initiative to make corrections to stop from making the same mistake. This is a great country - the greatest of them all - to that we can agree. But under Bush we stumbled and fell to a low never seen before and now corrective measures must be made to regain our status. Take your head out and see.

Bethcat, agree with your post, but I would leave out the word "intelligent" when discussing liberals. Anyone stupid enough to have voted for this guy and the rest of the leftist in Congress, possess the same mindset as those dummies in Hollyweird. Basically, they are as dumb as snot!

Sactojim: the name calling is not impressing anyone. This kind of empty-headed name calling is not contributing to the solution. Have some better ides? Share them.

Thank you

sactojim:

The empty name calling is not impressing anyone. This kind of empty-headed name calling is not contributing to the solution. Have some better ideas? Share them.

Thank You

Pastol, cut with the racist bull-crap. I and every other American who truly loves this country are fed up with you libs tossing this "racist" slogan. You have the nerve to denigrate others as just being "sore losers" and then you morons resort back to the old stand-by racial crap. Cut it and cut it now, understand! Our disagreement with this president is over "policy" and not skin color, get it! We are sick and tired of this guy (and the jerks in Congress) spending this country into oblivion. In his four years, he will have amassed a deficit greater than all Presidents from Washington thru GWB and that is based off of the level of spending he is proposing NOW. God only knows what he will do over the next 3 years to increase that deficit further. Also, we are tired of his kissing thug dictators rear-ends (for shame you Obama, when political prisoners are sitting rotting in jails by the thousands in these countries...America, the beacon of freedom, ARE their only hope and you just slapped each and every one of these great souls in the face by sucking butt with the likes of the Castro's, Noreiga, Chavez, etc...as for Chavez, I would have taken that book and told that weasel to shove it where the sun don't shine). And lets not forget the butt smooching of the European weasels (I could give a flying fart what those European inbreds think of this great country...their all cowards, but obviously dear ole Barry Soetoro does...and he STILL got nothing in return...now that is what I call great leadership, don't you?). Now, is that enough facts for you, Moron!

When the Germans committed war crimes during World War II, every person in America was outraged by the torture and killing. Even if it was on a larger scale, that is not relevant. We decided as a Nation and as an International community that torture was illegal. Our laws were specific. Just because we got a "President" who refused to recognize international laws, laws that we were not only signatories to but laws that we initiated, our Nation can not suddenly decide that these laws are not applicable to us. Those laws and our Constitutional laws, declare the treatment of our "prisoners", was illegal. We have no choice but to enforce those laws. That means we must prosecute those responsible. How else do you think that future Presidents will enforce the laws of our land if they are not held responsible for their actions? If they can see that previous Presidents were allowed to break both constitutional and international laws, there will be no incentive for them to enforce whichever law that they deem inconvenient. Any American that is against prosecuting Bush and his administration for breaking the law,even though they wrote baseless unconstitutional "laws" to allow their actions, is asking for future administrations to further break our constitution to allow them to do whatever they want. Conservatives? lol. The level of intellect in this nation is proportinate to the length of time that the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE has been abolished. Most Americans will not read anything that does not reinforce their beliefs. Most of those beliefs have been firmly instilled by media propaganda. If we had THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE still in effect, at least these people would have been exposed to differing viewpoints, and possibly, they would have had to think instead of swallowing propaganda. Fox "news" went to the Florida Supreme Court and got a ruling that the "news" did not have to be factual. Reagan said when he had THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE repealed, that the content of "news" programs should be determined by the "free market." He sold the truth to the highest bidder. That is why we have Americans who have no clue about the truth, or what is and what is not wrong.

You right wingers are outright pathetic. Bush and his people deserve to be prosecuted and put away for life for their transgressions againt humanity in the name of "protecting America." That coward and his supporters use the September 11th attacks to justify their criminal behavior for the entire 8 years Bush was in office. Only the stupid and fearful were willing to follow Bush's ignorance in leadership.

Knight Who Says Nee, you should learn to read all of the posts before choosing one and jumping all over it like you did to Pastol. Pastol was responding to Bethcat's immature tirade against Obama, and SHE was the one who inserted race into the conversation. She accused Obama of being a racist(with no proof). So it looks like you cons play the race card as much as anyone else, especially when something isn't going your way, like the elections didn't go your way (Thank God if he really exists).

Many more Americans DO care what other countries think of us. Our image worldwide has been damaged seriously by the ignorant, redneck foreign policies of Bush and his know-nothing supporters. It's obvious that we care about our image, or we would not have voted Obama, a man with a plan , not a boy with a toy, like George Jr into office.

This is a nation of laws, and as such we should conduct ourselves according to those laws. No one, not even the President of the United States Of America is above the law.

Also, for all of you on here touting how America is the last hope for freedom for all the world, and that everyone wants to be here. You've obviously never been outside this country to see that the US is not nearly the only country with illegal immigration problems. Germany, France, England, and nearly every other industrialized European nation has the same issue. Illegal immigration is about economics, not a desire to destroy the host nation. The same arrogant attitude of you ultra patriot cons is part of the reason we were attacked on 9/11. The problem is your egotistical worldview that everyone is jealous of America. I can honstly tell you that America ceased to be the envy of the world when you morons elected a fellow moron named Bush.

do you even know what a fact is? Because you didn't list any facts, you just spewed a bunch of your opinions and labels them as "facts". Also as a piece of advice, when debating or agruing: if you resort to name calling and juvenile insults with people that don't agree with you, it just shows your lack of intelligence and lessens the value of your opinion. Second piece of advice, stay on topic, Obama's spending plans have absolutly no bearing on weither or not the Bush administration broke the law by saying that it was OK to toture prisoners.

Torture is a terrible thing to do, calling it "interrogation techniques" because they wanted information out of it was just a way to spin it. Torture is not a sound way to gather information, sometimes you may get accurate information but people will tell you anything when they think they are about to die.

Perhaps people don't know what waterboarding is so let me explain. The prisoner is laid down on a decending board with their head lower than the rest of their body. Clear plastic wrap is then laid over the victims face and water is than poured over the plastic. Logically yes there is no chance of you drowning because the plastic is covering your face but your brain thinks you are drowning and goes into fight or flight mode. Since you are strapped down to a table you can't get away and your brain panics and freaks out because you are going to die. The CIA attempted to train their agents to resist that form of torture if they were captured by enemies, but gave up and said there was no way to change the way your brain is hard wired to think. You can tolerate and accept pain but if your brain tells you that you are going to die, it is a terrifying experience.

All of the Republicans writing on this topic would not really want to live in a country governed by people who actually think like them. Why? Because if they ever got into any trouble, there would be no safety net whatsoever. Only pain and misery. If they were ever incarcerated or jailed, they would be tortued regularly and considered guilty until proven guilty. It wouldn't matter whether they were innocent or not. Laws would be irrelevant because anyone could break them at any time. Might would be absolutely right. That is the prevailing logic and reason in all of their commentary. Ironically it is the Republicans that are waving the flags so proudly and yet hate our constitution, laws and country most. They are the ones pandering with secessionists, depressing votes and fomenting a treasonous armed insurrection against a duly elected government. They actually are so conservative and "old world" oriented, that they thirst and hunger for rule by a dictatorial Euro-American King and Theocratic Church. America was founded by people running away from people just like them! All you have to do is read their comments on this board and others to witness their true governmental preference (GOP Dictatorship completely devoid of peaceful dissent). It certainly isn't a Constitutional Democracy!

tdk

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....you cite a website that is pro-NObama......proving you libs will follow a three legged dawg as long as it has a D attached to it.....LOL!!...

I think O is making America look strong and confident. Only a true man can admit when he is wrong - and a strong country can admit it also. We are wrong some times - might does not make right.

Never have I wished ill upon my conservative neighbors. They are Americans just like myself and even if I don't agree with them, I will defend their right to speak. This blog really surprises me - the hateful talk, mainly by the Republicans toward your liberal brothers and sisters. "You will pay", "Stick you heads up..." What happened to intellegent, logical dialogue between concerned citizens? We need to band together in times like these - No one needs this in-fighting. Is this what you teach your children? Hate toward your fellow American? It makes you sound like the very people that we used to torture.

Obama gave us a tax cut that is not a tax cut. I guess you could call a cut in withholding a tax cut, except the tax tables that will be used against your income for 2009 have remained unchanged. What this does mean is that

1) people who got big tax refunds will get a smaller refund in 2010,

2) many who got a small refund will owe

3) those owed a will owe a lot more.

There is one exception, if you are a targeted group or enough targeted groups, you will get a bigger refund or no change?

Before you elect a president, talk to a CPA about their tax plans. At least 52% didn't talk to a CPA.

Knight-

Your personal insults are cluttering up your message. There's no need to attack people for having a different opinion. Some of us are here to figure out our opinion on this issue.

Julian in Dallas, I am guessing if/when the Democrats lose control of the house and presidency and the next elected politicians decide that BHO acted outside of the law by ordering the execution by Navy SEALS of the Somali Pirates you will applaud that decision just as much as the current vendetta that appears to be rampant in Democrats' minds?

Decisions as are made as a President that are easy to criticize in retrospect. Personally I think the ratio of being waterboarded once for ever 10 victims of 9/11 isn't that bad considering the options if those affected had committed that crime in their country. Here's an idea, maybe we need to rewrite the laws so at our option we can prosecute these offenders either under our law or theirs.

Al, just like Obama, you must be on the terrorists' side. Remember 9/11? Apparently not. Wake up! Those tactics were necessary to get information from these animals. We are not dealing with petty crooks here. These are suicidal extremists.

What do you think these people do to us infidels? Far worse than what we did to them, I guarantee it. Pretty soon, we will be viewed as a weak, indecisive nation. A nation does not earn freedom by being soft. It has to be fought for and protected.

This nothing more than Obama's rhetoric to appease the left who was complaining. Notice he left the situation in someone else's hands to TELL HIM what to do. No fault on Obama going forward

- he can say he was open to it but was advised against it

or

- they prosecute and fail and he blames it on bad legal council (him should we then prosecute his legal council?)

or

- they prosecute and win and he claims victory until it further divides the country and he blames that on his advisers!

This is all politics and rhetoric as he continues his campaigning...

BRAVO MD!!! What you have reported is TRUE, SANE, and HISTORICALLY CORRECT! I'm sorry for all those here that can't see anything, due to fatally toxic Fox.

And you, "Knight": How apropos that you are so enamored of the "Shrub".

Hey Get Real- Um he left it up to the AG because that's what the AG is there for, to make the legal decision to prosecute or not.

pastol,

It has been mentioned several times herein that Obama promised to give adequate time to review Bills before they were passed. He failed to do that with the stimulus package with the final details being worked out in a partisan manner during the night. He promised to go though Bills line by line and eliminate ear marks. The Stimulus bill has thousands of ear marks. Yes, he has only been in office for three months and he has already broken many promises.

Amen, tortured the Obama admin.

Absolutely!

Absolutely!

We elect a president, not a king. Either we are a nation of laws and a republic or we are an empire with an emperor who is above the law.

The choice is yours.

Absolutely!

Be careful what you do. 2012 is not that far away and Obama could find himself on trial if he opens this door of partisan attacks on previous administrations.

The President of the United States is not above the law. (Not even our much-beloved Obama!) If it's undeniably proven that President Bush violated our laws--and, thus, violated his oath to uphold and defend the US Constitution--he should pay for what he did. Otherwise, I'd rather leave him alone to his retirement. He can't do any more harm to the US than he's already done.

I'm glad that President Obama did a "walk back" of his statements. Let the Justice Department do its job and sift through the evidence. Not even the White House can dictate who does and does not get prosecuted.

Perhaps even higher. To get to him we would have to go through the entire Congress. Oh my! President Obamah was in congress. Are his hands dirty too. It would seem so under a most perfect ruling of law. All was available to congress. If they suspected it and did nothing, they become in Theory Of Law, accomplices to the act and therefore accountable for the actions of the country. But wait there is more!! We elected them. That makes us,......... Oh My, we all must be tried. I don't say all of this to be a smart ass, but to express just how far un-busy minds can wander. Kinda like Congress. (all of em)

Your "logic" is flawed, to say the least.Lets see...then the people who voted against them would be innocent and...do you write bad fairy tales? In my opinion, President Obama (not Obamah, Faulkner) would be failing his oath to uphold the law if he gave Bush and his possee a "free ride." I voted for Obama but it seems that his head has been turned by the "Elitists" who presently hold the real power. That is our job as Americans, to make sure that he fufills the promises he made before the election. If he redirects his attention to the "little guy" (95%) of us (you too I'm sure), then hopefully he will realize that giving our money to the elite bankers and corporate heads is wrong. I hope he realizes, as did FDR, that real Americans are in peril and takes appropriate action. Obama has the right stuff, he just needs us to keep him focused...

Lets hope it does go as far up as Bush, and pray he gets prosecuted.

No I don't.....he kept you safe....the administration kept you safe.....if what they did kept us safe who gives a rip!!!......what is it going to take for you libs to wake up and see that there are people out there that want to kill as many of us as they can.....I will try to break it down to a level you might be able to understand......you are at your house loving the peace and quite.....your neighbor starts building a fort with all their weapons pointed at you....putting out vids on YouTube telling the world he is going to take you out....what you going to there Mr/Ms Lib????.....talk???....tea and crumpets???....yep and then one day they take your entire house and family out......I can hear you now.....why didn't somebody do something to stop this????......well, we did but you libs didn't like how we were trying to stop them and you bleeding hearts stopped any measusres.....so, sorry your family and house is gone.....

I actually agree with WMB63 that "Bush kept us safe". After the fact that he and Cheney were totally asleep at the switch, despite being heavily warned by Richard Clarke and others in the intelligence community about an impending attack by airplanes! But then, who kept us safe from him, afterwards? He didn't invade Saudi Arabia and Pakistan whose people actually invaded and attacked us on 9/11. He got Afghanistan right for a while but then got greedy with his oil Baron donors and invaded a sovereign, innocent nation (Iraq) that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. And he completely lied about the reasons for invading Iraq and torturing, maiming and killing its innocent people. That makes him a world class war criminal! If any other leader in the world made such a grievous error outside of the G8 nations, they would have been drug in front of a world court, tried and hanged in infamy! His own country was so disgusted with the sheer incompetence of him and his Chamberlain (Dick Cheney) that it broke historic precedence and elected its first African American President (to rid itself of their stench!). I would call that a complete repudiation of your king George and his Party, dude. Sorry you and many others here are still stuck in it. Republicans are going to be stuck in the wilderness a long time as the full truth continues to finally come out about their rogue regime and as long as they stay in denial about it.

the really sad thing about these "what if the terrorists came to your house" statements is that the chances of anybody, on american soil, being harmed by a "terrorist" is as small as getting hit by a shark. But your chances of having the police mistake you for a criminal and shoot you in front of your kids, in your own home, are much greater. but this is the best country in the world right?

So what I am getting out of all of this is that if a law is passed after the fact then prosecution is retroactive to just certain people because of agendas being broken. The last time I checked prosecution on this basis is illegal. It's a witch hunt that is a waste of money. War is war we are no better than anyone else when it comes to war. No one else pays attention to the Guidelines set for by the Geneva conventions or any other manifestos that are similar. So why should we follow the guidelines during wartime. Unless there are actions taken against innocent civilians then why should we care about the guy trying to kill us?

@gcerny12:

You obviously were never a military person. Especially one who has ever been captured. The Geneva conventions saved John McCain's life and many others. Without them every one of our pows would be killed. Your argument is shallow and silly. Every nation pays attention to the Geneva Guidelines. Especially the USA up to the Bush/Cheney Rogue administration. And we did kill and maim over 200,000 innocent civilians in Iraq while displacing millions more. We arrested innocent Iraqis and tortured them. All over a bald faced lie. They never had anything to do with 9/11. They did not have WMD's. They never invaded nor represented any type of threat to our nation or its sovereignty. Get this through your thick head. You were lied to; flim flammed; hoodwinked; conned; disrespected; and terrorized with fear mongering by your elected leaders (Bush/Cheney). They were in it for money and power. Neither could care less about your safety. Truth is a beaitch sometimes. I'm sure a time will come when our side is completely wrong. But this isn't it with President Obama dude. You and the better people of your party need to move on past this disastrous legacy, and group of idiot leaders ASAP and stop denying their misdeeds. Otherwise your stay in the woodshed will seem like forever.

Excuse me I did forget to mention I am a former Marine and proud of my country, but not my government (for about the last 30 years or more) Maybe we did kill a few innocents but I think the 200,000 number is a little exaggerated. It's true that we weren't exactlytold the truth. As far as the Wmd's are concerned it doesn't take real genuis to eliminate traces of these things. And if I recall information regarding such things, from the investigators, was rather limited due to not being able to do the job the way it should have been done.

It doesn't matter in war when the politicians try to run the war things just don't work out too good in the long run.

When you say every nation pays attention to the Geneva Conventions is not, in my opinion, true. Maybe a vast majority do but not all. And the ones that are on the fence about it usually do only when it is to there advantage, like North Vietnam did during that "police action" which is another place we shouldn't have gone.

I don't think I ever called any politician smart. In my book a politician is just an over glorified con-artist. Some are just worse than others. The one we have now is just a better double talker than the previous one.

Absolutely!

And that would include all Senators and Congressmen at that time, right? Including Sen Obama?

To

Ruby, what are you talking about?? No I have not forgotten 9/11. Unlike You I am neither a coward nor am I naïve. How Many Military divisions showed up at your house on 9/11?? How many troops were deployed to your street to protect you and your Family & Neighbors that fateful day?? I don’t know what happened at your home but I do know what happened at mine. When We the People were attached on 9/11 President Bush and his entire Administration, The Pentagon, and all division of the Military totally FAILED us!!! Not one supervisor was on the job that day. Our Military aircrafts did not lift off into the skies to defend the good ole USA within seconds as we have always been told they would that day. They showed up to protect We the People way to little, way to late. That day, 9/11, they DID NOT show up at my home to protect me & mine. Not one troop, not one National Guard, not one police officer. I learned something that day. No One will protect you from anything. If you can not protect yourself you are dead meat sister. If you did not learn that then your are just stupid.

I can tell you that the thought process of most of the Cowardly Conseritives in this country is the reason you are naive and stupid. It is a very dangerous world out there, because of what the Republ can’t and the Neo Conservative did while they had control of the White House and the Government. The President and his entire Staff, every member of the CIA and every Neo Conservatives that told the LIES that led to the WARs based on LIES that led to torture should ALL be PROSICUTED to the Full extent of the law. If you let these people get away with breaking the law and failing to protect the Constitution of the United States then you have to open all the doors to all the PRISONS, run for Profit, and let all those criminals run free too. Thank goodness for my SILLY emotions. They tell me I am angry and I want not revenge, I want JUSTIC. I can not believe someone with a mind as closed and nailed down as yours is would have the nerve to criticize anyone else’s.

“And by the way, if America is so bad, why are there so many people all over the world who cannot wait to come here? THINK.” Idiot you may want to check your facts, the rest of the world are not coming here to even visit the good ole USA now. As for me & mine we were here already when you “White/Yellow people showed up. It really was the Home of the Brave and the Land of the Free back then.

And that would include all Senators and Congressmen at that time, right?

Why because they were lied to? Only the Republicans kept up the foolish War propaganda after no WMDs were found. So maybe yes.

I appreciate your cogent and well-formed opinions. We U.S. citizens are fortunate to have service men and women like yourself serving to protect us... both with the tools of defense and THE MORALS TO UTILIZE THESE TOOLS WELL! I am grateful to know that our armed forces are not populated by mindless drones, and I hope that your effective reasoning, higher moral values, and conscience are not singular in your unit.

Define torture.

The information obtained was not only credible, but saved many lives.

In a war many people are killed, waterboarding is a walk in the park in comparison.

Nobody talked about "war crimes" and the "Constitution" when we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We were only too happy to end the war, take no more casualties and give the Japanese a taste of their own medicine. Same with the bombings of German cities.

A little honesty please!

None of the info the received by torture was valid.

Thanks for your service and LOGICAL response to this travesty the Bush Administration called "interrogation". For those of us who are not and have NEVER(ie-bush, cheney) been on the front lines it should anger us that we send young men and women over seas to fight for our freedom as a country to only be tortured or burned in some slum because cheney thinks torture has kept us safe, lets not forget while true there has not been another attack but 911 happened on your WATCH Dubbya and those who blindly agree with these tatics!!!!

I agree with the Dark Knight: "If our enemies see us treating our prisoners with torture and other unorthodox methods that legtimatizes their argument to kill [or torture our] oversea troops." That's why we have treaties against torture -- to protect our troops, not just to be good world citizens.

Americans like to think we are from the most moral country in the world. Let's walk the walk here.

Everyone here is still missing the point! If we allow a President, any president, to be able to write "memos" to violate the law we are trashing our Constitution. This country will have no credibility around the world if everyone thinks we can break treaties or trash our own laws by writing secret memos. This is such a violation of EVERY ONES rights.

Didnt we call waterboarding torture when the Japanese used it against us? Why the double standard?

It was and it still is Demproud. Z-man(?)...yeah Mike should put his DD-214 on the internet for all to see....wow. Do you peep at stalls too? Don...you're something else. I pray that they publish the results that were gotten through torture. Of course a victim will say whatever you want them to when they think they are dying or their pain is so severe. The FBI has always said that torture was not a reliable method of interrogation. It doesn't take a genius to see why. Cheney is a liar. He never asked the CIA to release the results that were gotten under torture. Did you read the report? Do you think Mike should show his DD-214 on this forum also. Lets see, we know Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc... didn't have one (DD-214, or military profiles), even though they were all eligible for the draft. What are the odds that the top 5 or 6 people who were mainly responsible for the "war" (against one of the poorest nations on earth after ten years of a blockade), and who were all eligible to be drafted to "fight for their country",most of them during the "war to end all wars", these "men" never were drafted or joined the military even though they were eligible during at least one "major" war? But, (and this is the odds breaker) they were the people most responsible for invading and occupying a sovereign nation who was absolutely no threat to America. Also, they encouraged torture even though none of them had ever been in a battle. Does it sound a litle like the Nazi's who prosecuted WWII? I know, Hitler was a corporal in the German Army but most of his "top" people were never military "men" until Hitler created positions for them....things that make you go hmmmmm.

The Dark Knight,

I am a US Marine too. You are completely correct. We, the USA look like a big bunch of hypocrits telling the rest of the world about their human rights issues, when we have just as many violations here in the state. I don't know if you served in the Corps under Bush or not, I'm glad I didn't serve under that POS.

Since you're a Marine, you probrably know that one of the reasons Bin Laden gave for the 9/11 attacks was the fact that the US has it's military garrisoned everywhere OUTSIDE the US(remember the bombing of the USS Cole?). You also know that Bin Laden himself and all but one of the 9/11 attackers were from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq or Iran. You also know that the Bush family was in the oil business with Bin Laden's oil-rich family too. What's really sad is that many Americans, especially the ones who are ignorant enough to vote republican cannot see what's real.

Libs have no other points other than....it is GWB's fault and somehow linking them to "big oil"......oh, so there are no Democraps in big oil???......Julian.....you are the ignorant one here!!

To Don,

From the torture convention:

"For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. "

Everyone here is still missing the point! If we allow a President, any president, to be able to write "memos" to violate the law we are trashing our Constitution. This country will have no credibility around the world if everyone thinks we can break treaties or trash our own laws by writing secret memos. This is such a violation of EVERY ONES rights.

Without being facetious can you refer me to the law that allowed BHO to order the execution of Somali Pirates? That wasn't a violation of their rights? I am not saying it was the wrong decision he made, just questioning your very apparent bias.

Call it what you may but war is war and you do what you have to to survive. The only difference between us and them is Technology. If you are going to punish people for doing something wrong during wartime then punish every single person that has pulled the trigger in the name of freedom and not tyranny.

Voter in LA- its considered eminent danger, that means when it is believed that you might die they get to shoot that person or persons who might kill you. I don't think if you were in a situation you would view it as a violation of their rights.

I believe the word you are looking for is imminent not eminent. Regardless though, what you've cited is self-defense. I don't believe our Navy Seal snipers were in danger. Like I said I am not anti what BHO ordered done, I am just pointing out that to the best of my knowledge there is no law authorizing the President to order to execution of someone. If in the future an elected politician decided to question this decision, would people be as supportive of possible action against that person? I'd bet if on 9/12 you asked the American population whether they would condone waterboarding to extract info from self-confessing organizers behind the 9/11 attacks, the overwhelming answer would have been yes. Time however has changed our minds about how far we wished to take this. The same might occur for any decision that seems justifiable at the time but plays out differently in the future.

Voter- According to the World Police Encyclopedia- "Firearms are used as a last resort and only when there is no other means to respond to an EMINENT danger high risk to life." Its self-defense if you killed to save your life or the life of another. Its pretty much splitting hairs, eminent danger leads to self-defense. It was the capt that was in danger of being shot, that's why the ok to take the shots was given. Its much different than an execution.

That's why its usually not a good idea to make decisions in the heat of the moment, most people who commit a crime of passion tend to regret their actions after they have time to contemplate.

You're still missing the point: where is the law written? I don't consider some Police Encyclopedia a law. It may be standard operating procedure but there is no Constitutional Law that affords the President the right to order such an execution. Obviously we all know this occurs and has undoubtedly occurred numerous times in the past. The point everyone is missing is that today we are all applauding the action taken by BHO in much the same way when Bush went hell for leather to try and find those behind the 9/11 attacks. We all get caught up in the moment. However when things are more settled and we look back on our past actions we may consider them to be wrong. One could also argue the topic of what rights we as a Nation possess in those waters (this would be one of the reasons the Dutch released the pirates they had captured). Understand I am not condoning the actions taken under the Bush administration for the waterboarding nor am I against the current administration's handling of the piracy situation, I am just not sure I really want to see a future for the USA where each subsequent administration starts second-guessing the actions taken by their predecessors. Or if we do, then lets throw everything out there and start investigating and prosecuting for example those (regardless of their advanced age) who may have had involvements in the McCarthy era pursuits against "non conformists". Are these really actions as a Nation we want to start taking? Shouldn't we be looking to the future and not constantly in the past? It appeared to me that BHO's initial opinion was similar: we know what was done is wrong, we can't undo that, let's correct it and go forward. Dwelling in the past will always simply stir up more bitter feelings.

FWIW I still believe the word should be imminent not eminent. Imminent would mean likely to occur at any time. Eminent is defined as:

1.
high in station, rank, or repute; prominent; distinguished: eminent statesmen.

2.
conspicuous, signal, or noteworthy: eminent fairness.

3.
lofty; high: eminent peaks.

4.
prominent; projecting; protruding: an eminent nose.

Here Voter- This is from the Federal Code of Regulations

§ 1047.7 Use of deadly force.

(a) Deadly force means that force which a reasonable person would consider likely to cause death or serious bodily harm. Its use may be justified only under conditions of extreme necessity, when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed. A protective force officer is authorized to use deadly force only when one or more of the following circumstances exists:

2) Serious offenses against persons. When deadly force reasonably appears to be necessary to prevent the commission of a serious offense against a person(s) in circumstances presenting an imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm (e.g. sabotage of an occupied facility by explosives).

Here it does use immement, but in state codes they use eminent, sorry that is what I'm more familiar with. Didn't mean to confuse you.

Well, that shut Voter-in-La up good, and it should. as much as he denied it, he WAS being facetious, and very much so. I knew at age 12 that the laws of self-defense applied to defending OTHERS, as well as your self. And it makes sense. Wait, so everybody that prevent an old lady (who's too feeble to use a .45) from getting killed is an executioner?

PS Didn't mean to confuse him??? LOL. His brand of self-righteous, erroneous hyper-correction is usually the mark of those who tried but failed to get a proper degree. Confusion is his whole life.

im⋅mi⋅nent [im-uh-nuhnt]
–adjective 1. likely to occur at any moment; impending: Her death is imminent.

em⋅i⋅nent [em-uh-nuhnt]
–adjective 1.high in station, rank, or repute; prominent; distinguished: eminent statesmen. (i.e. not Bush. but for example: Obama)
2.conspicuous, signal, or noteworthy: eminent fairness.
3.lofty; high: eminent peaks.
4.prominent; projecting; protruding: an eminent nose.

Now, go on and call Webster's dictionary a part of the leftwing-slanted MSM. Please!! Do!! Make my day.

Read a book on how our justice system works and then you'll understand a President doesn't have the right to change laws. What if Obama wrote a memo stating all types of abortions were legal. I'm sure then people would understand why this was so wrong.

Right, that's why other actions of the Bush administration should also be investigated as well. How many times did they ignore laws or treaties that were deemed "inconvenient"?

BoBo the Clown---you sir, are aptly named.

Everything the Nazi's did was legal under German law too-

sorry, NOT under German law. Those were used AS WELL at Nurenberg against them. They made Nazi laws however, which stated amongst other things that old people were a burden to society, as were jews, gypsies, negroes etc. etc.

You are right. Obama needs to be booted out...he is a lousy leader and is bringing our country down...sure hope he is voted out next election.

WHAT!?

Our forefathers and young men have given their lives to fight for our constitution, for inalienable rights and freedom. The values and ideals of this country have been forfeighted by the Bush Administration to keep us safe. My question is at what cost? What will we lose if we have exceptions to these values?

Yea. Good luck with the voting-out part.

IF President Obama (use the entire title--it won't hurt you, I promise!) violates any of our laws and fails his oath to uphold the US Constitution, then he should be held to the same scrutiny after he leaves office. (In 8 years, thank you!) Otherwise, just voting against him because you have a hate-on for him, while is one's right, is kind of short-sighted and vindictive.

I suppose a moron like you would want Bush re-elected. I can't believe how stupid some people really are.

jtm964, "this Obama guy" as you called him is our President, who was elected as such, by well over half of the citizens of this country. If you are capable of reading any of the documents defining the duties of the President of this country, you would know The Presidents job is far more extensive than just keeping us safe! President Obama understands the job much better than his predecessor King W did.

The original question up for comment was, should the Bush Administration be investigated and prosecuted if laws were broken by torturing prisoners of war. If you think torture is the American way, then you are sadly misinformed about who we are in this country. Or at least who we were until we experienced 8 disastrous years of the Bush Administration. Unless we investigate, and then prosecute all those responsible for making the decisions to torture, we will certainly become a lawless country. No one is above the law, especially the highest levels of government officials. They set the standard! My hope is that we can right some of the wrongs we committed under the guise of protecting our country. Many of these actions did in fact, make us far more vulnerable, and hated world wide. We have never been less safe!

No man or country is an island, we all live in the same universe, and need each other to survive and prosper. Moral and just behavior is always the right road to take, regardless of what anyone else does. Unless we

The President's job is to make sure we are safe.

The President has lots of duties. That's just one of them. And please provide evidence of how Obama has failed to keep you safe since he took office. Evidence, not opinion.

Making us look weak......but you libs like that....

look weak? yep, in your guntoting fantasy world i guess, maybe. Out here in the real world, we think he looks strong. What, you think China thinks "oooh he said bush tortured, let's attack him now"??? Because ... ALL OF A SUDDEN THE USA HAS NO NUKES ANYMORE?

What part of Obama's "I'm sorry that my moronic predecessor tortured people, but I actually KNOW how to use these nukes smartly" don't you understand?

Mike, the Congress makes the laws. None was broken, otherwise the Congress would have acted. It is amazing how waterboarding a few self confessed terrorists (with no long term physical or mental consequences) has become a "Constitution" issue, a "human rights" issue, etc. The Castros, Chavez, the North Korean dictator, Ahmed..., are laughing at us. The fact is for Obama there are 2 distinct U.S. The one before he became President was all bad, the new one he wants to create is all good. That is why he is allowing all these dictators to insult the U.S. in his presence, while he is apologising at the same time. I just hope the people around him (mostly Clinton people) will awake him from his delusion.

Obama is bringing sanity and pragmatism to foreign policy and trying ti restore the credibility the US once had. The first George Bush would NEVER had gone where his son went.

Congress does not enforce laws, the executive branch does (or doesn't, as in this case.) The only way to enforce law on the executive branch is through the courts.

Let's also bear in mind that Congress was derelict of their own duties over the last years, not questioning the arguments given for the Iraq war, not regulating trading of derivatives, etc. They are people, too, and were also complicit in (or at least turned a blind eye to) many of the administration's actions.

To say laws weren't broken and that's why congress didn't act is ludigrest because congress as a whole didn't know (The Reb. congress didn't care what Bush did as long as he continued to sign all those pork bills put in front of him) But you are correct, Congress makes the laws and TREATIES, and Bush violated both with his memos. He didn't go through Congress. He told some committees RUN by Reb. in congress what he was doing and they we sworn to secrecy. They couldn't even tell the rest of Congress that he was violating the law. They could protest to his administration and that's about it. NOW that the memos are release they CAN start acting.

Obama is bringing sanity and pragmatism to foreign policy and trying ti restore the credibility the US once had. The first George Bush would NEVER had gone where his son went.

Sanity and credibility by constantly changing his voiced opinion? How quickly you apparently are overlooking that only a few days ago he said he wouldn't prosecute. Currently he appears to be acting as President by following the sentiments the wind blows in: AIG bonuses - tax wait no don't, earmarks - no wait yes wait no wait oh I don't know, etc.

What is a Reb.

Yeah, at least Bush never changed his mind, even when (most of the time) he was proven wrong. Also, he couldn't think of one mistake he made in 8 years.... what a guy.

Voter in LA- He stated he didn't want the people following orders prosecuted, he didn't state anything regarding the ones who made up the orders.

There were plenty of earmarks taken by the Rebulicans too. There was one R Senator who wanted to re-write the whole omnibus bill, but would only vote for the new one if HIS earmarks were in it. They were in the 1st one too. They might seem frivolous to some but they do tend to be useful, as long as the money gets to and is used for what its ment for. Roads, science, art, weapons development and many other things.

Don- If the Repubs don't care about our standing in the world, why do they care if Chavez, Casto and Kim-Jong Il (North Korea if you didn't know) are laughing at us?

Mike congress had no objections with one exception....later when it was politically expedient they developed a conscience....

By Joby Warrick and Dan Eggen Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, December 9, 2007; Page A01

In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.

Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.

"The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough," said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.