The answer for your situation is medicare for all in this country with an option of keeping your current medical insurance if you are happy with it.

You are tolerant to a fault. I say if the insurance companies can't cover you affordably they should be out of business. Don't take their crap! Nobody should be making a profit from your unfortunate situation. Profit has no place in healthcare. Don't make excuses for them, don't allow this to happen any longer! As a nation we should be pooling our resources to make the lives of people like you manageable. We could easily do this.

My Friend was diagnosed with Colon Cancer in Mar.09. He is also Diabetic and Uninsured. The state Risk Pool Insurance would cost him $1097.00 per month. Other Insurances would not cover his preexisting condition, so his mistake was not getting Insurance before. He had to retire and gets $1200. a month from his SS. He can get no help from Medicaid, Medicare will not kick in for another year as he is going to be 64 next month. He needs surgery, but where is he going to get it, he can't pay for it. One Chemo drug will cost $9,600. every other week. So I'm just going to sit back and watch him deterioate and die. And If I wasn't for Socialized Medicine before, I definitely am now. We should all be on the same playing field as those that don't work. So after you work for 40 or more yrs and end up this way, when you see people everyday that are on disability because they are to lazy to work; and the people that really need the help can't get it, you get cynical like me. By the way we are US citizens and Hispanic.

That final turn in your logic, "because you are high risk you can understand why insurance companies don't want to cover you".

Take a look around the world at other civilized countries who cover all citizens whose tax dollars circulate back into care for all people who need it. Tax money doesn't go to bail out corporate thieves and endless ceaseless WARS!

The u.s. has lost it's mind.

Profit has no place in healthcare?? Then by all means become a Doctor and don't charge any of us.. Develop life saving drugs that cost $500,000 each to put on the market and do it for free.. Make MRI technology but don't you dare make enough money to buy a nice car. We woulnt stop you.

If your health isnt worth paying for, I don't know what else is.. Sacrifices for life is worth it. Ive had huge medical bills, made less than 8 an hour and paid 10 dollars a month for years until it was paid off.. worth every penny. Otherwise i wouldnt have a right arm..literaly.

We have the luxury of turning it dowm thats righ a luxury.. In the UK they get to turn you down. As a friend living in the UK, and working in the med industry said to me, "You go in with breast cancer and they pretty much tell you to F off!"

We will all get our healthcare, it's just going to be lousy healthcare because you and your doctor can't make decisions, only a politian get to decide if you live or die.. have fun with that.

Vickie

First please accept my sincere sympathies concerning your terrible and all too common medical situation.

I have a very dear friend who finally had to stop working because of developing complications from a pre-existing condition. While he was working, he could afford to go to the various doctors as needed. As with your situation, some single medical conditions also lead logically to other debilitating conditions, which then all get lumped into the same pre-existing condition, by who? The insurance companies.

Here is my first point. Because he can no longer drive, I take him for care in the present "socialized" system, so I have learned to know the ins and outs of this system well. The waiting rooms for primary care and triage are always filled with with those we know as the generationally inherited entitlement folks, which is the direct result of a continuation by many "no-guts" administrations and legislatures who will not act on these programs, which were supposed to be temporary but which no one has wanted to stop. So now we have a self-perpetuating system of "free" medical care, which the rest of us pay for. And on top of that, this program is technically unConstitutional, but again, no one wants to be the bad guy here - the Democrats be cause they fear losing votes, and the Republicans because they are afraid of furthering their image as not caring about the poor.

And here is my second point. My friend's care is excellent, and so I assume the same for all others in these programs. He sees specialists as needed for free. His prescriptions are free. He is now feeling better than he was when he was still working and insured (although his medical conditions have of course advanced). There has never been any question of what was or was not a pre-existing condition. There has never been any question of when specialist care is needed. His now fixed income is not impacted at all by his medical situation. He is fortunate because he had previously paid cash for his home, and no longer has any car expenses. But he is most fortunate for the "socialized" medical program that sees him promptly and takes care of his every need.

For every person like him, we hear the argument that there are dozens of other people using this same system who could and should be working. Aside from the adverse effects on the many small children involved (which actually can be managed several ways), how do we start unraveling this absolutely illegal and immoral system and "encourage" these people to go back to work, when one of the biggest losses they will face is a price-prohibitive medical system instead of an excellent one paid for on the backs of the rest of us, which would then include them?

If the majority of hard-working people saw the level of care they could get promptly and for free, and they did not have to deal with the obvious moral dilemma involved, they would quit work tomorrow.

TO VICKI - I am self-employed and am a liver transplant patient and THERE IS A TRICK TO BUYING HEALTH INSURANCE for the self-employed. I am in California....and....If you can find someone to be a partner in your business that would be great. I can be your spouse, kids, in-laws and so on. In the state of California A BUSINESS OF 2 OR MORE PEOPLE IS CONSIDERED A GROUP AND CANNOT BE DENIED COVERAGE!!!! you do have to have a partnership agreement and a business license. If you are not in California, I would call A FEW insurance brokers in your area and found out the skinny for where you live! We have had a PPO insurance plan, very nice, for about 5 years now. ps....I am also a Vickie. Good Luck!

Something has got to be done about the cost of healthcare. Obama made a valid point when he commented that it doesn't make sense that his grandmother, terminally ill with cancer, had a hip replacement recommended to her by the doctor and paid for through medicare three months before cancer killed her.

It doesn't make sense that tylenol costs $10 a pill at the hospital. Our system is broken. It is time to get it fixed before the baby-boomers get old and bankrupt medicare.

I agree with MahaDave.  "Profit has no place in healthcare".  There is no cost standardization for medical procedures.  Our local community hospital outpatient billed $3184 for a cd scan with contrast and for the same exact cd scan with contract across the street at another facility billed $1,476.  The costs vary greatly from facility to facility.  Then there is also the negotiated rate between the medical facility and the insurance company.  Shopping for the most affordable healthcare is almost impossible for the consumer.  My 20% co-pay varied by hundreds of dollars from one facility to another for the exact same medical test.

Hi !!

I feel your pain, i am asian but a taxpayer and i too not eligible for that but i also oppose national health care system and would prefer a low cost health insurance.

Good Luck,Alicia

Vicki,

What does being white have to do with it? Do you think it's easier for people of color to get coverage? Do you think all immigrants are Hispanic? In my experience working with illegal immigrants, very, very few take advantage of anything that is available to them because of language/cultural barriers, lack of knowledge that these services exist, and fear of deportation. People of color and immigrants, even those who are illegal, have nothing to do with your inability to get adequate healthcare. Or mine, for that matter. The villain here is big business and deregulation that allow costs to skyrocket. We need universal health care. Health care for all of us should be a priority.

You seem to be badly misinformed. Social Security is not paid to people who are not U.S. citizens. And you have to have been a U.S. citizen for 40 quarters (ten years) prior to collecting it.

What does happen to a lot of illegal immigrants is that they use false identities and pay into Social Security and Meeicare. In that case, the government just keeps the money.

Same with income taxes. Illegal immigrants often pay in, but have no way of getting refunds. Also the requirements for citizenship are a matter of law already. It actually takes an acta by Congress to make an exception.

The last exception I heard of was the Iraqi lawyer who was granted asylum and citizenship for assisting in the rescue of the Army gal who was badly injured in the first gulf war.

It is just a fact that illegal immigrants are not sapping our health care system or debilitating social security.

These are just myths propagated by people who can't face the facts. One problem that is accurate is that the children of illegal immigrants, born in the United States, are flooding schools. The problem there is that they are American citizens and that is spelled out in the Constitution

Why are you opposed to socialized medicine ?? You would be getting exacly the same treatment as if you had a private insurance. I just do not understand people like you who have no idea how socialized medicine work.. Do you think we are going to put you in a hopital room with 25 beds around you?? This is just ridiculous !

I live in the country who has the best health care system in the world and yes, it is socialised medicine ! I can choose my doctors, test needed will never be refused, there is no waiting time, and it is very affordable. Your system stinks and no one who has UHC envy it, believe me ! There are many myths about Universal health care but you know what ? all the government does is pay the bill !

Vicki - I am 54 years old with *two* hereditary pre-existing conditions which are under control with cheap meds - i.e. blood pressure and cholesterol - can I get insurance? NO! This is rediculous as with cheap meds my blood pressure is great and my cholesterol is great - I get my meds for $5 in generic form at the local HEB (walmart does this too)

Thank god for their cheap meds program, I do support them for it when I go for refills by buying merchandise as a thank you, when I could go elsewhere. But I do it for their program. BUT it really ticks me off that no insurance company will offer me any when I have no further medical issues and in great shape. I guess the last laugh is that the insurance companies by refusing a healthy person insurance dont get my money. It doesnt make me feel *safe* if something should happen though....

I am in favor of universal health coverage. However, you must realize that, under a socialized system, you may NOT be able to get treatment for every little problem that comes up. Health care actually DOES cost money, even though our care may currently be overpriced. One reason is that, with the encouragement from drug company advertisements, we have people being treated for conditions that are just part of life because they are inconvenient: needing to pee frequently, wanting not to get their period monthly, and millions of people with "depression" or ADHD that is due as much to our fast paced life style as it is to actual medical conditions. We need to concentrate on serious illnesses and get people to take care of themselves better, so that we don't need to treat so many people for frequently preventable conditions such as diabetes, serious overweight, and lung cancer. If we did this, gave doctors more time to treat patients, and cut down on unnecessary tests, we'd get better care at a lower price.

Hey doremi,

If you live in the country with the best health care, could you at least tell us which it is? Then we can all move there, or at least use its system as an example. =)

disclaimer*** I am not a race hater I am stating facts. I can not argue the facts I can only repeat. **** I have a family member that works for the county she lives in. (this person is also very open and NOT a race hater) Every day she sees immigrants (99.9% Hispanic due to location) that come in for WIC and or public assistance, (medicaid, food stamps, cash assistance, section 8, energy assistance) who are working a job under one name, and getting county funds under another. She is bound by law and can NOT disclose the fact that she knows these individuals are illegal. They "accidentally" show her a pay stub from their job under "other name" forgetting that they are "the other person" for public assistance. She has seen pay stubs with weekly take home as high as $1500 for the individual on top of their WIC vouchers, food stamps, section 8 housing and medicaid they get for free.. The name on the stub does not match the name in computer but the address does. They also regularly give the wrong name verbally when they come in for services. My family memeber has no reason to lie, she just does her job. She never reveals names of individuals (not that I would know them I live on the other side of the country) but she is bothered by the process but respects their privacy at the cost of billions of tax payer dollars. I'd say that is a pretty flawed system that is killing law abiding working taxpaying citzens. I believe in rights for every one, but I also believe in being accountable for your actions. If your breaking the law, you need to be punished.

My opinion is that the problem is that insurance is hiring a third party to pay your bills.

If everyone tossed their medical insurance into the trash TODAY we would see medical costs take a nose dive. Fear however will keep those who can afford to pay, paying medical premiums. If everyone paid their own bills I think life would be much easier. Perhaps the amount one now pays for medical insurance would approximate the amount the actual services would cost.

I believe we've been sold a bill of goods. The concept of insurance is a good one. When it's done for profit the good flies out the window.

Around 40 MILLION americans are uninsured which means we are going to be unable to pay the rates medical services demand. Sure, I'd like to have a good long life, but without insurance when my time comes, that's it. One good thing which comes from this cliff-hanger of a life I live and that is that I truly appreciate each and every day I AM alive.

Vicki Berry: I can feel your pain financially. It's like a special disease being white, employed, w/o insurance and momentarily in need of an Emergency Dept. All they will do is stabilize your condition and attempt to admit you to the higher tier of diagnostic tests and doctor referrals. Go AMA (against medical advice) and leave unless you are next to dead or want to be poor the rest of your life paying off medical bill$.

Too, uninsured medical fees run as high as four times what (accepted) insurance reimbursements are, which are still higher than gov't Medicaid. Why? Because the medical establishment can. Do you have any remedy? Uh, bankruptcy comes to mind.

It seems as if the people who can least afford health care are those who work and HAVE health insurance. My husband had one test and it cost us almost two thousand dollars out of pocket. The deductible was one thousand and the rest was 20% of the rest of the bill. All we got from this was a letter that said everything was normal , a two sentence letter. And I had to ASK for that. BOOM and you are instantly two grand in debt. FOR ONE TEST!!!!!!!! who can afford that?! The deductibles are high and 20% of the rest of the bill is a lot of money with todays medical costs. Nobody ever discusses the real problem with health care, and that is that it is TOO HIGH for costs. It simply is not going to get better until costs come down. Plus those of us that pay our own bills, also have to pay indirectly the bills of all the people who dont pay their bills. Yes, the welfare people, illegal immigrants, etc. can go to the doctor because they dont have to pay the bill. But for those of us with medical insurance, we just simply cant afford to go to the doctor any more. Its sad, we have all these great health care advances , but no one can afford them..

Public Servant

You are incorrect on a very important point. Please understand that your friend is in fact being an accessory to the very illegality she is saying she cannot report. Out federal immigration laws require the reporting of employment of people who have broken our laws by entering this country illegally, and also the people who have hired them.

Federal-funded programs which provide social support (Social Security, Medicaid, etc) specifically restrict benefits to legal citizens of the U.S.

State programs for relief, which are generally supported in part by federal funds, also require at least a modicum of proof of legal citizenship, or at least legal residence.

If your friend is giving any of these benefits to people she believes do not have the appropriate documents, she is aiding and abetting an illegal distribution of public benefit money - also known as "scamming the system".

Your friend better have a talk with someone higher up in her government office, because when they are audited, if she is caught, she will be terminated and she will have a lot of explaining to do to stay out of jail herself. Saying she THOUGHT she had to overlook others breaking the law or that SOMEONE ELSE TOLD HER TO DO IT" is not going to fly as an excuse.

Your friend is a front line employee. She needs to read her job description. She is supposed to properly screen all applicants and only approve benefits for those who meet the written qualifications. She is not doing her job, she is allowing others to cheat law-abiding taxpayers, and she is BREAKING THE LAW, actually several laws at several levels.

She needs to stop this immediately.

Lemme tell ya a true story: This was about five years ago. I was working for a small company that did offer health insurance. but because they only employed 41 people, the insurance was expensive. but hey, those are the breaks. So I had a $160/month policy with $15/$35 prescriptions. There was a fateful day when this HUGE woman on welfare waddled in to Rite Aid and she was screaming all kinds of obscenities into her prepaid Boost Mobile phone (with the chirp and speaker turned up to maximum, of course). She was mad about her prescription copays going from free to $2.50. Yeah. She can afford her prepaid phone and two cartons of Newports, but she was cursing about having to lay out $7.50 for three prescriptions for one of her fatherless children. It made me sick.

Butterfly

The current welfare program was never intended to be used and abused as it is now. But until we can get an administration and legislature to stop worrying about their votes (Democrats) and their image of not caring about the poor (Republicans), how do we get them to start dismantling this technically illegal program which now creates a mentality that is passed from one generation to another?

I have heard many young girls in these circles say some variation of "I can't get a decent job and I hate school. I want to move out on my own but I need some money. I know! I'll have a baby." The sad truth is that the girls are right!

This is not their fault. They are children modelling the behaviors they see around them. This is the fault of every administration for the last half a century which has let this monster system continue unrestricted. We are all paying for this, and getting nothing back. We are encouraging another generation of kids who don't think they need and education and therefore just cause problems until they can legally leave or be tossed out, or think a pregnancy will help them live at least an adequate life. We are bleeding money, talent, and resources of all kinds to destroy an entire segment of our own people. We need administration that is willing to take the short[term popularity hit for a tremendous long-term gain for the entire country.

Pinch, there will *always* be stupid people who do stupid thing, because alot of people are just, well, stupid. The average IQ of the human race is 100... that means 1/2 of the human population is honestly moronic... This being said, that 1/2 of the population will probably never hold a good job, have a good family life, do well in school etc. etc. etc.

It disgusts me that people say "I made something of myself, other can too", I always want to reply back, you are probably one of the smarter 1/2 of the nation and besides, you cant have a nation full of Chiefs and no Indians, there will always be clerks, fast-food workers, ditch-diggers, etc, etc, ITS CALLED REALITY... alot of people will never get ahead for multiple reasons, i.e. they come from low-income families, they dont have the intelligence or common sense necessary to get ahead, they may have some infirmity or physical defect etc. etc..

In this day and age, I dont expect them to be model citizens with nice homes, nice cars, and nice incomes, however, I would like to see them have one thing at least and that is decent medical coverage. The medical industry is just that - AN INDUSTRY that works on profit! If ever something should be socialized, it is medicine and healthcare. Socialism is NOT the big bad word that people relate to Communism. Communism is an equal wealth distributed among all workers despite the job they do, socialism is merely a *little* balance between the wealthy and the poor. If someone has to give up owning that *boat*, *porchse* or third or fourth vacation home, etc. for the goodwill of someone else, is that so bad? Take a look at your doctor or dentists car next time you go by and see the mercedes or porchse etc he is driving, and then take a look at his workers who make little above minimum wage like the desk manager or medical aids he employees. Will THEY ever own a decent home or even a car... not at the rate the doctors and dentists pay them (check the classified and you will see TONS of ads for employement in a medical office or dental office - WHY - because they pay crap!!)

If ever there was an industry and could and should be socialized - its the medical and dental industry. TRUST ME - IF THE CURRENT DOCTORS AND DENTISTS dont care for the salary they would be making, SOMEONE ELSE would take the job for less. The dental and medical schools are just as guilty because they keep the demand for doctors and dentists high by keeping enrollement low... they are hand in hand with the medical and dental industry keeping demand high by only producing so many a year, they COULD pump out more doctors and dentists but dont!!!

I think the problem is less with doctors' salaries and more with insurance companies. Insurance companies should not be for profit. The other problem is that so many people are uninsured that their medical costs come out of the inputs of those with insurance. If these people are all going to the ER instead of a regular doctor, that jacks up the price even more. If everyone paid in at least a little and could go to a normal doctor, that would cut costs.

I have good insurance and am still amazed at how much people without insurance are asked to pay for treatment. For example, I had an MRI that was billed at $2000. However, the insurance company has a lot of subscribers, so they were able to get the price down to $900. I only had to pay one tenth of that. Even if I had to pay the full $900, that would be a lot less than an uninsured person was billed. That is definitely not fair. Everyone should get the same price, but because this is a business, big companies can squeeze down the rates even if normal people can't. It's crazy!

joe,

if it'll make you feel any better I don't collect welfare and when I have gone to the ER I have paid my own bill. Went about 5 years ago. Last regular doctor appt? 20 years ago.

But if anything major happens when anything major happens it's the end of the story.

Please devil's advocate, I can give you many, many examples of down on your luck, poorly raised, low IQ people (and those with mental and physical handicaps) who still manage to "make something of themselves". You will not get me with a pity party of those 50% with a lower IQ. It's the 80% of those 50% that are lazy leeches who are smart enough to figure out how to ABUSE The system instead of working to help themselves and show moral character.

You are right though, we can't have a nation of Chiefs and no indians. That's life & you see it all thru nature in the animal world as well. However, we are still in the greatest, most free land of opportunity in the world. You want a real class system? Go to India where there basically is no middle class. You are either privileged or not. I worked with a gentlemen from India who was spouting anti-American sentiment after the 911 tragedy. Instead of spouting the "If you don't like it, go back to your country" statement that I was very was tempted to say (or sick the CIA on him), I got up the guts and calmly asked him to answer me a simple question - why was he working here in the United States. At first he glared at me & couldn't answer. When I asked him if he made more money here, he said no, he could've made more money in India. Okay...well there has to be some sort of benefit for him to be here or he wouldn't be here. Finally, with some gentle prodding, it sort of accidentally slipped out. He let on that in India, his son would not be able to go to a good school. The best schools were off limits to him (because of class) so therefore he wanted his children to get a good education in America. There you have it! He is here, FREELY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF OUR FREEDOMS while spitting on our land and those that earned those freedoms. Same thing with healthcare, people come here because we have the best. Like another poster said of the UK - you go in with breast cancer and they basically tell you to "F" off. I saw it first hand & lived in the UK and their healthcare system isn't all that great. You socialize medicine and we will have a shortage of doctors and substandard care that will drive this nation to it's grave.

I agree meddoctor....but have to add hospitals, physicians and the pharmeceutical companies.

Eh, sort of true.

Me and my wife have insurance. When she was pregnant and her contractions were under 5 minutes apart we went in thinking she was in labor. We got charged $150 for the nurse to call her doctor for a whole 3 minute converation. $150 for 3 minutes. I wish I made that much money. (That $150 was the doctor's fee, and did not include the hospital fee for walking in the door and the supplies and time of the nurses to hook her up to the baby monitors.)

Yeah, no kidding. My girlfriend was in the emergency room and saw a doctor for a half hour. He charged her $700. I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. It's unsustainable.

No, it doesn't make sense. But put blame where it belongs. THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!! It's time to force them into the light like we have all the other greedy profiteers in big business. Anybody taken a look at what the CEO's of the big insurers are making? Talk about bonuses! They make a lot of money by refusing honest working people benefits they have paid for!!

So ,don't blame the medical community - blame the greedy insurance companies - and tort lawyers if you need somebody else to blame.

Maddoctor, you really need to go on the road with this.  I agree 110% with what you have to say about insurance companies.  We are all three still with Kaiser Permanente but if we had to pay all of the premiums ourselves, we would be living under a bridge.  We are very fortunate that our retirement plans and MediCare take care of us in a way that we can afford. 

First - the docs DO NOT get what you see charged on the bill. A large percentage of that goes to the suit running the hospital! The rest goes to insurance companies. If you want to fix health care in our country get rid of Insurance companies. They deny to pay for everything despite never placing hands on the patient. That is MEDICAL NEGLIGENCE!!!!!!! I refuse to have a suit with no medical background decide what is best for me..not my doctor, not me a medically trained professional, a SUIT decides!!!

Canada does it right - ask a Canadian, not some blow-hard right wing radio talk show host. I've known quite a few people from Canada and they don't mind their health care system at all. They live longer than us and generally are healthier.

I now pay about $500 a month for my health insurance and I am perfectly healthy. I would be happy to give that same amount to the government (in taxes) so we could all have good health care even if we are not healthy.

And let's not blame the illegal aliens for this problem - there are plenty of legal American's who do not have insurance and must go to the doctor regardless. The insurance companies are the crooks - notice, they don't need any bailouts and always show a profit!

we got relatives up there in can. over the yrs 2 got cancer by the time thy got thru the red tape and paper work their cancer had advanced to the point of incurable

Kathy

You are absolutely correct. What you see on a bill is the set charges established by the insurance companies, but the actual charges of the doctor or the hospital.

For example, we have one of the better insurance coverages. A member of my family had cancer, which required post-operative radiation - 39 consecutive daily visits. The insurance covered this. However, the cancer center our surgeon arranges for us to use was having construction done, and their entrance was closed. However, they are adjacent to a hospital with which they are not affiliated.

After the first week, I received a bill from the insurance company for $500.00. I called them. They informed me that since we had had to WALK THROUGH THE HOSPITAL five times so far to get to an alternate (but temporary wooden and plastic-sheet tunnel) entrance to the cancer facility, we had to pay the usual hospital per diem co-pay for an inhospital stay. I took this to every place I could think of, including our lawyer, to no avail. When I finally ended up in collections, of course the bill was a final total of $3900.00. No doctor or hospital ever saw a penny of this. The cancer center and the hospital both offered us sincere apologies but there was nothing they could do either.

When my family member went back a few months later for follow-up, the construction was finished, and we paid only our usual $20.00 specialist visit co-pay to enter the exact same facility through a outside door. We even exited out though the hospital because it was closer to the car and it was pouring rain. At least we weren't charged for that.

Oh, and that never happens HERE, joe? It does.

I agree 100% - That's why the insurance industry (which gets 40 cents of every healthcare dollar spent in the USA), is SOOO terrified by Obama's plan to try to regulate them! Health insurance always has a clause denying a subscriber to sue them, or otherwise hold them accountable for poor care ( or no care) - so they feel quite comfortable denying certain treatment options up front. a patient will likely never be able to navigate the legal/medical system combined to address any problems caused by "for profit" healthcare. Insurance ties the hands of the health care providers, who are scarcely allowed the time to establish a professional relationship with a patient these days, let alone to review their medical record, do a decent review of systems, establish a diagnosis, and begin a course of treatment that takes an individual's beliefs and preferences into account, as well as best practices. I get better care for my pets from the vet than I can get for myself through BC/BS today.

JOE - please spare us the crap - you are just another republican trying to convince everyone that Canada's health system is bad. Heres another story. My grandparents were touring Canada - Grandmother has divertiulitis and against doctors directions she ate a hot-dog. It got lodged in an intestinal pocket. She had to spend TWO WEEK in the hospital - she was rushed right in. When they checked out, here monetary obligations were *0* for the hospital stay and only a small amount for the meds!

When they got back home, they put a pencil to paper and calculated how much they would have had to pay even with insurance. Suffice to say my grandfather at 69 would have had to go back to work for the rest of his life.... He said their medical system was great, the doctors were great, the nurses were great, the place was clean and efficent etc. etc. he had NOTHING bad to say about their stay except for it ruined the remainder of their trip! He said everyone was wonderful to them despite they were USA citizens.

So there are TONS of good stories to offset any bad ones. I think you repugs make up this stuff to scare everyone - are you a doctors or a dentist or a hospital or pharmacy worker by any chance??? hhhhmmmmm??? perhaps a paid blogger for the medical and dental industry??

What if people & healthcare providers started some sort of grassroots movement - like "hey Doc, tell me what the insurance company will actually wind up reimbursing you for an office visit - minus all the paperwork for the reimbursement process - can we come up with a private price between us for cash? What does the lab charge your office for this test? how about bypassing the insurance company, and you bill it directly & split the savings?"........

If insurance companies are the problem, (and I believe that their greed and "business model" of health care are a major part of it) it would seem that there must be a way to circumvent them.

ALICEINWONDERLAND - BY THE WAY - HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED HOW A *VET* CAN FIX A DOGS BROKEN HIP FOR $450 (I HAVE A GOOD VET WHO DID IT CHEAPER AS I AM GOOD CLIENT MOST OTHERS WOULD CHARGE $700) and do all sorts of OTHER things like x-rays and lab work and ITS FAR FAR CHEAPER THAN IF YOU WERE A HUMAN HAVING IT DONE??

Makes you wonder doesnt it? I mean a human and a dog are both mammals with little variation when you really look at it i.e. same bones just structured different, same internal organs just structered different, use the same type of meds, i.e. pain pills, anesthesia, etc... and yet a MAJOR OPERATION for a pet is like 1/20th of what the medical industry would charge you. And he has to pay for insurance against mal-practice too? Same as a doctor would.

SO I ASK EVERYONE - HOW IS IT A PET CAN BE OPERATED ON FOR A BROKEN HIP THAT ONLY COSTS $450 WHILE THAT SAME BROKEN HIP IN A HUMAN WOULD COST $140,000 OR MORE.....

it doesnt make sense, does it??

What if people & healthcare providers started some sort of grassroots movement - like "hey Doc, tell me what the insurance company will actually wind up reimbursing you for an office visit - minus all the paperwork for the reimbursement process - can we come up with a private price between us for cash? What does the lab charge your office for this test? how about bypassing the insurance company, and you bill it directly & split the savings?"........

If insurance companies are the problem, (and I believe that their greed and "business model" of health care are a major part of it) it would seem that there must be a way to circumvent them.

I SO agree with you Alice in Wonderland. But fear will keep this from happening on a universal level. I so agree with you. Wish it would happen overnight.

We need more people telling it like it is. And the most absurd is the RNs of the insurance companys deciding what the MDs should do. How are we going to get quality care with that in place

the illegals and career-unemployed walk into the ER and get free health care everytime. you think they are going to pay? they cannot be found. but being a taxpayer, they will take your house to pay for your health care.

And don't forget about all the people Wal-mart is too cheap to offer insurance to. When they get sick, everyone pays. And those people actually work!

Excuse me, but if you got a generic antibiotic for the flu, then you were ripped off anyway. The flu is a virus and is not treated with antibiotics. Your story, while moving, is not consistent.

Yes it is a disgrace that we, the richest country on the earth, can not and will not give healthcare to all its decent citizens.

I too am sick an tired of the free loaders (illegals, lazy ones who don't want to work and and welfare people) who get great medical care only due to the fact that we working idiots keep paying and putting up with it. All the while, we the regular workingperson cann't afford medical premiums.

The answer for your situation is medicare for all in this country with an option of keeping your current medical insurance if you are happy with it.

I propose that we all write our Congress people and Senators (who all get great health care off of our working backs) and demand that we get (NOW) a Medicare program for all citizens ---or we will not vote themin again---period!!!!

Florida

Ummmmm... am I missing something here? Your early retirement income is $40,000.00 a year OVER the cut off for sliding scale at your local clinic, and you insist you can't afford health insurance without starving?

Not to mention, you have CHOSEN not to work the past 4 years.

Am I really supposed to feel bad? :o

They said $40 per year over the cutoff, not $40,000 a year!

"It seems that the only way I can get sponsored health care is to use up all of the modest assets that I have (or become an ILLEGAL alien!). I have given family and friends instructions that if anything happens to me I am to have no treatment or testing--I don't want to survive a serious illness or injury only to be left the live the rest of my life under a bridge! I fully expect that there is a good chance that I will die of something treatable before I become eligible for any form of government sponsored health care . . . "

siestagh take a little comfort in knowing that you are not alone. I'm in a boat which is floating very close to yours.

Candidly, for all the bravado and jingoism the fact is that the U.S. healthcare system ranks #37th in the world when a number of variables are gathered. http://uttm.com/stories/2000/06/20/world/main207853.shtml

If we put this information in Spanish and circulate it along the border states our illegal immigration problem will disappear. They will now sneak into France and Italy.

Sorry to hear about your medical condition. Consider yourself lucky that you didn't have to wait a couple of days for approval for tests. After we get this wounderful welfare health care program, all of those tests will be gone, including the ones that may have saved your life.

My wife has a complete filing system with all her bills right in order and the billing dept

repeatedly tries to bill for items paid, sending her to collections for $15.00 with out

notification for items paid. the point is not only do they not tell you what your being

charged for but they return for more and if you cant ID what it is then you pay again or

risk having your credit messed with.....

In the last 2 years watching her fight with her medical bill its amazing we haven't found

a way too change what we know first hand is totally out of control.

EricGF, keep in mind that legally they must provide you with an itemized bill upon request or you do not have to pay them. Tell them that and see how fast you recieve your itemized bill. Good luck to you.

Bradley

Due to a serious medical condition of one of my family members, I truly could not pay the entire hospital charges presented as one total all at once (and I have good insurance, comparatively speaking, but there was a lot left over after insurance had paid most of it).

I had already asked for and received an itemized bill covering all the different divisions and departments, which essentially all bill you separately. After reviewing it carefully, I was able to negotiate over 30% of it down, since they were for services never actually received.

I went to the hospital accounting department and made arrangements to make payments on the remaining balance, which I then did. I collected each of the different bills as they came to me, and kept careful track of the ones I paid as I went along, and crossed them of the master list from accounting. Some came immediately but some did not come for several months. The amounts are accumulated by a central computer as they are charged, which is why the hospital can give you a total charge upon discharge. The individual departments still send the patient an individual bill for their share (Radiology, Ultrasound, etc.), which means novices trying to do the right thing could actually pay a charge twice if they did not have an itemized bill of the total.

So I was stunned when a few months later, I got a notification from a collection agency for the entire amount, including the items that had been deleted and items I had already paid. I called the collection agency, and tried to explain the situation. They did not have anything but date of service and a single account number. In other words, they could not begin to have an intelligent or accurate discussion concerning what they were collecting. They told me to call the hospital, but that I still had only seven days to pay their collection bill or "further action would be taken".

I called the hospital and the person I had negotiated with initially, and she had completely different numbers - correct ones. She explained that the computer did not actually record the items as charges from individual departments and did not recognize partial payments, and notified the collection agency "automatically" when a total bill was not paid in full after a certain period of time. .But she volunteered to call the collection
agency and bring them up to date.

I continued to make even a little larger regular payments. A few months later, I got a phone call from an attorney, asking for the total amount from the last correction made between hospital accounting and the collection agency. Now, the lawyer said, I was in real trouble, and I had to pay this new amount at once. They also did not have any individual information - only date of service and account number. In frustration, I called my contact at the hospital, and she called the lawyer and straightened it out again.

But then the lawyer called back and said I had to pay the remainder immediately. I told him I could not do that but would continue my payment plan. So far, nothing more serious has happened except harassing regular phone calls from the attorneys on old amounts. I explain briefly, firmly decline full payment, and politely end the conversation. Thank goodness I am almost done.

My point here is that the billing systems are so confusing that even someone who is very persevering and conscientious can get caught in a number of ways. As careful as I thought I was, I have had two checks returned to me because they were to departments I had already paid. Thank goodness for honest people at that level.

EricGF: DonyB is correct that under a Patient's Bill of Rights for every hospital, a requested (in writing) itemized bill MUST be provided you within an ascribed period of time during during which you need not make a single payment on your bill.

Upon request, you and/or your responsible party have the right to receive a fully itemized billing statement, which identifies the date and charge of each service provided. If your healthcare is being provided through a managed care plan, this does not apply. http://www.providence.org/spokane/vna/e80rights.htm

You will be quite surprised - or shocked - finding out that Tylenol provided you came through the hospital pharmacy billed at $2.50/per. Wiser too.

I felt your pain, knocked me flat on the ground!

I went to the ER for kidney stone pain relief, I was not given options only a 4800 dollar non negotiable bill for being uninsured. They basically did nothing exemplary except control pain

No advocacy anywhere for the uninsured or uninsureable!

ATTENTION ALL INSURED>>>> To all you hard working insured people who thinks they have all the bases covered. THINK AGAIN all your programs will self destruct and are designed to fail in long term illness cases.. believe me , we've been there. They take everything you have ,,,then dump you to public health-care anyway. You will end up there unless you have millions to insure yourself.

People are dieing because they don't want to bankrupt and destroy all family and extended family members and their futures, because the illness of one individual will do this in our current corporate greedy health-care structured system.

A new healthcare system to prevent multi member family individuals from all going bankrupt and destroying every ones future is desperately needed. Medical problems are the number ONE reason for bankrupt families. I definitely go without care , trying not to lose the roof over our heads and have my family become homeless is job one.

My wife became disabled due to a terrible cancer, even with insurances, we were financially reduced to nothing and she ends up on medicare and the rest of the family now has no insurance or any viable options... TRUE STORY!!! this is the miserable health-care system we have today.

"ATTENTION ALL INSURED>>>> To all you hard working insured people who thinks they have all the bases covered. THINK AGAIN all your programs will self destruct and are designed to fail in long term illness cases.. believe me , we've been there. They take everything you have ,,,then dump you to public health-care anyway. You will end up there unless you have millions to insure yourself."

Well said.

Folks, read this again.

I've noticed that the ER looks like a Third World country now, thanks to illegal aliens. You could die waiting to see a doctor because some chain-smoking illegal immigrant has the flu.

Because that was bush's answer to the health care crisis---"You can always go to the ER". Thanks, you moron bush!!!

Yeah, the answer isn't to give health insurance/care to the people who need it, it's to deny health care to people who already have it. *sigh* Okay...

You hit the nail on the head!!!!

Such a very unkind and hateful tone Ms. Butterfly and Mr. Golf man.

Are we good, honorable, right wing, Christians to boot? 

Both of my parents (lilly white folk, as I am assuming you are) used the Urban Clinics that you speak so lowly about. They were both hard working folk who were unable to afford insurance until they were finally able to age into Medicare. They were greatful for the care they received there.

Third world country indeed. Your families must be decendents of the Mayflower.

I was told a similar lie- had to have a test run and was told that there was a grant for these certain types of tests that I could qualify for. After I got the bill, I called to find out how to apply, and found out they have nothing like that. only payment plans. thanks a lot.

It's only illegal to deny you treatment if your injuries are life-threatening (which yours apparently weren't), and even then the only legal obligation is to treat you until your condition is stabilized. No further treatment is required by law.

Boo hoo! Stop hurting yourself then you wouldn't have anything to compain about. There are people here who have real medical conditions that are not self inflicted. We are not going to feel bad for you. The rest of us have to pay a higher cost for health care because of deadbeats like you who refuse to pay your bills.

Lorin: Screw you. you've obviously never known anyone with a mental illness. People with clinical depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and the like have REAL medical problems that have REAL medical consequences if they suddenly have their medicines withheld. That was the only time in my life I was unemployed, so I'd hardly characterize myself as a "deadbeat". I refused to pay that bill because there were no services rendered.

I started working at age 14. How about you? I hope that you are not in a profession that involves health care or counseling. You seem more suited to tabulating columns of numbers.

Butterfly Mage, maybe Lorin DOES have a real mental illness -- she did say she had been on meds. Just because she didn't say she was schizophrenic doesn't mean she isn't. However, I agree that the public should not have to pay for self-inflicted medical problems. For me, that includes accidents suffered by motorcyclists without helmets, diabetes caused by eating poorly, and injuries suffered by people doing things known to be dangerous, like skydiving, rock climbing, flying small planes, diving off of rocks into unknown water, mountain climbing, etc.

The rest of us have to pay a higher cost for health care

The only ones to blame for this is the corporate greed machines and thier lawyers.

They pick your pockets clean with premiums when you don't use it ,and copays and non covered items when you do need to use the insurance. All set up to take control of all your and your familes assets in time of real strife. that's how low these people are.

you also have no Idea how our health-care system today is Structured and the lack of VALUE that has all disapeared.

Perhaps I'm missing something, and no, I don't believe that President Bush was perfect, but what does he have to do with your college loans?

"Thanks, Bush" because your college loans are so high? What crap! He didn't make you go to college, did he? Shut up and get a real job like driving a truck for 70 hours per week, missing nights, weekend, anf holidays with family just to make a bare living! Count your blessing, you lightweight whiner!

It's knee jerk reaction to blame Bush for everything....remember?

I've said it before, it just doesn't pay to be an American citizen anymore, your better off being an illegal just for the benefits you get in education and health care alone.

But it is NOT all Bush's fault. Both parties have failed the American people. The ideologues need to wake up and realize this.

Ok, never was a Bush fan, but I fail to see how your excessive college loans have anything to do with Bush or Kerry or Obama or McCain or anyone but YOU - YOU signed the notes, and nobody forced you to. YOU chose the school you chose, which apparently was more than you could afford. Leave politics out of your personal choices.

The college loan debacle is a model Bush failure.

http://blog.buzzflash.com/alerts/240

The White House idea, reported over the weekend, would require millions of college students and graduates consolidating their education loans to pay variable rather than fixed interest rates, which would be recalculated every year.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0429-04.htm

The Bush administration rejected a Democratic plan to cut interest rates on federally backed student loans...Bush and the Republican-led Congress had six years to increase Pell Grants, if they wanted to do it

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=an.zPXXqwrww&refer=us

Kansas State Student Confronts Bush on College Loans :sophomore Tiffany Cooper asked, "Recently, $12.7 billion was cut from education, and I was just wondering, you know, how is that supposed to help our futures?" "The education budget was cut?" Bush responded. "Say it again. What was cut? At the federal level?"

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jan/24/nation/na-collegeaid24

Again, what does people choosing to attend college have to do with President Bush? Did he make you go? Did he force you to take out loans that had been so freaking low in interest that the Federal Government was being ripped off for allowing the loans to be underwritten with my tax dollars with many being defaulted on?

Its not a free ride, baby. Poor whiners. Got a loan to go to college and now want to blame President Bush that you can't pay off what you signed in full awareness of what you were doing.

That behavior is what caused the entire economic mess we are in now. Got to have that big house, where do I sign, oh no, you mean I HAVE TO PAY FOR IT?!? Oh cr@p. Bail me out!!! It's all President Bushs fault. Vote in Obama... 3.7 TRILLION dollar budget. Nationalize banks. Take over and force sale of auto manufacturers to foreign companies, health care is next. America bankrupt. We are screwed. Thanks. (not)

Hey, on a side note, have you ever noticed that 99% of Obama bumper stickers are on foreign cars? Way to support America, chumps.

Bitter? Yes. So what?

In reference to Obama bumper stickers on foreign cars...a better view...how about asking a Pro Obama citizen (assuming they are not illegal residents) what was the last bill B.O. drafted NOT co-wrote?

*Laugh* Who hasn't noticed more O'Bama/Biden stickers on cars now that Democrats have finally won an election??? *Laugh*

No, everything is not about about money except insofar as money represents one's efforts at survival in the modern Western world. In a caveman society, the slacker who kept eating but did not help hunt for the group would be somehow evicted from the group and would probably die a natural death like a loner meerkat. These days it is considered too harsh to expect a member of the group to be accountable for his/her welfare. After all, we wouldn't want to consider ourselves cavemen, Lord knows!

Anonymity in our huge society makes it easy for slackers to get away with their selfish behaviour. If liberals would allow us to take people out behind the barn and pound sense into them, we might free up resources better spent on truly deserving old people and children who are honestly orphanned, not just abandoned by worthless parents more concerned with gettin' some than thinking of their potential "cheeruns" future.

P.S. I am sick to death of working my a** off only to be taxed to death to pay for everything from food to health care for people who take advantage of the system meant to care for the deserving, not the cheating. IF EVERYONE HAD GOOD MANNERS, ANARCHY WOULD WORK!

Yes, everything is about money. sadly.. and this will not change with universal healthcare. I believe it will be worse, because we all know how lowsy the government is with money.

They will just look at the cost, and they will look at how much longer someone will be able to pay into the system, and they will make their judgments from there.. not you, not your doctor.. some bureaucrat.

Universal healthcare is awsome if you are a healthy 25 year old who wants to party all the time.. come 50 though, you better start freakin out. You got costly problems yet only 15 years of taxes left in you before you try for Social Security, another wooonderful government program that has been sooo successful.

You are wrong Observer. It would actually cost less to have universal healthcare. The key is to remove the insurance companies and their profits from the equation. You can reduce costs even further by removing the cost of malpractice insurance from the equation. While we are on that tack, we should also limit the amount of compensation for health errors. Once the government is in control, it can negotiate better costs for treatment and medications. Our country spends nearly 18% of our GDP on healthcare. This is more than double any of the countries with socialized medicine. We can easily afford universal healthcare if our leaders are bold enough to make it happen. Leave the insurance companies to insuring possessions. Our health is much to important!

You've got that right.

A broken foot cost me 2,500 to 5 different "professionals" and unnecessary trtmts and equipment. What an education that was.

To spare myself cost I took a flat-end screwdriver and hammer to take off my own cast which took 3 hours to complete. I threw out the painful boot the dr. then gave me and bought a pair of soft wool felt shoes for 39 bucks which was exactly what I needed.

Again and again I've learned: If you go the dr you'd better watch your back. If you're passive you'll be shaken by the ankles for all they can get. They don't give a damn about you anymore.