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When something is NEEDED, it DESERVES the utmost knowledge of ALL the parts of the plan. Noone knows at this time What All the parts are a
If it does not save billions of dollars to have the government run healthcare then why should we change? The current proposals are a joke!
This is the Fault of the lobbyists' which is nothing more than legalized corruptions! The lobby system is the worst thing for this country.
What the hell are the Democrats thinking about. Voting on bills that no one knows what in them. Not even reading them. Shame, Shame!
No question. The non-partison CBO said it will INCREASE costs. We need to slow down if not start over. Needs to be done but done right!
The public option, the savings "gimmicks," and the failure to fund by taxing health ins. benefits is killing this bill. Get real!
Congress moves like turning around an ocean liner. Do it NOW or else it will not get done b/c after the summer break, they will all be in campagin mode for 2010.
#1 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:06 PM EDTLook at the $787 Billion Stimulous Bill.
Things have gone from bad to worse since that bill was rushed though without actually reading it.
I agree with you. Obama knows that his Demoncratic controlled congress is doomed after 2010 so its going to be hurry up hurry up and try to force fear on the people of the US by always stating make no mistake...I am sick of his pathetic lies...lets get back to the way things were before this maniac took over...half of us aren't even sure if he is eligible to be president....he still has yet to produce his long form birth certificate.
If they felt this would help America, why wouldn't they do it and use it to campaign with? Obama knows if the Reps go home and hear from us, it's dead. They know this is an economy and job killer. Government run healthcare has never worked. Look at Hawaii and Massachusetts. Why would this be any better? The stimulus was rushed through so that we could keep unemployment at 8%. Now we are 9.6% and on are way to 11%! You know that they are getting beat up in the polls and on the phones. They know the stimulus was a lie and that this is also!
For those of you that have waited for health care, Get a job and pay for like the respectable conservatives do. You always want something for nothing. One word describes that. LAZY
This has to slow down, because no one yet has seen the great solution. Except me! How will we pay for health care reform? TAX THE FAT!
No, that wasn't an analogy, I really mean tax fat people. Most of the increasing health problems in this country are effecting them, caused by their inability to stop stuffing their faces. They make health care more expensive for all, and this is the biggest epidemic in our nation. Tax 'em silly. Then they'll have real incentive to cut back on the calories and we'll have money to spend on health care for the poor. But not the fat poor. Oh no.
Sound too much like unfair discrimination? So what? The government has proved lately that it can do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, no matter what the people say. This would be effective, at least, whereas everything else they've passed lately fails utterly and completely.
I promise you all, if you let gov't get the power to control our healthcare, they'll start controlling things like our diets, what foods restaurants can serve, and what kind of treatments you can give to groups like the obese. They don't need that control, and I don't want 'em to have it.
And if you disagree with me, you must be fat. Go get some exercise.
true skipster. And for those of you who'll now attack skipster for being heartless I'll remind you that the poor can get free or subsidized healthcare in every state of the union, they cannot be turned away by any hospital, there is also medicare for the elderly and the disabled.
of the alleged 45 million "Americans" without health insurance how many aren't really americans and are here illegally, how many simply choose not to have insurance, how many have never bothered to apply for the subsidized plans and how many are just to damn lazy to get a job and provide for themselves?
Skipster56, you want lazy, how about increasing your annual income [read that disposable income] by asking Uncle Sam for a handout ["cut my taxes and take on foreign debt that my grandkids will have to pay off" the Bush method] instead of increasing your productivity. That my friend is the respectable conservative way', besides cooking the books and claiming that deregulation will allow responsible corporations [like Enron, et. al.] to police themselves. No thanks, don't buy a health care package [Medicare Drug Program] from the Republicans [written by the chief beneficiaries, the Drug companies]. Man, hasn't American Ingenutiy shown what it can do in the last eight years? GM from #1 to zip, hope your savings weren't tied up in that Blue Chip investment.
Captain Marvelouos, you're hiring? Thought not.
I see something like weight watchers only for every percent you are over your "ideal" BMI add that percent as a Tax penalty. Makes as much sense as taxing the rich, they deserve it too. They got rich off the "fat" of the land.
Maybe we could tax the drug addicts, alcoholics and unwed mother they all burden the system too.
The slope just keeps getting slipperier
Just imagine how much extra the government could spend, taxing people like that though. Why, currently, they spend something like 300% (probably a low estimate) of the money they rake in. If they rake in more money, they can spend more. Don't stop with what you've listed. Add cancer patients and people with back injuries, 'cause those cost more than catching the flu.
In fact, why not just deny health care to everyone but the healthy. That will solve all the problems all at once. That's where I see socialized medicine going anyway, so stop sugar coating it and call it what it is.
If this is such a great plan the everyone from the President on down should be on it.
Most of the money in that stimulus package went over seas it did not stay here in the US. All because everything was a big freaking rush.
Take a little while longer and make sure and double check, it is not going to hurt...to error on the side of caution. Oh, but Obama has his chest all puffed up and if you don't do what I tell you to do, I am going to have a fit.....get real this guy Obozo does not have a clue.
Congress moves like turning around an ocean liner. Do it NOW or else it will not get done b/c after the summer break, they will all be in campagin mode for 2010.
If Obama really believed his health care bill was a winning issue, he would be much more deliberate in moving his bill forward through Congress and, if the bill failed, he would be eager to take this issue before the voters in 2010.
The fact that he wants to rush things tells us that he knows his government-controlled approach to healthcare is deeply unpopular.
The longer his bill is stalled, the more that people find out about it and the less likely its chances of passing later on.
I have always worked for companies that provided me with healthcare. If they didn't, I wouldn't work for them. Try it, you might like it liberals. When the better work force is employed by companies that provide health care, the other ones will be forced to follow suit, or suffer with the slackers. Universal healthcare is too expensive and doesn't work, Canada and Europe prove that! I know a family in Ireland that are looking to move to the US because their health care is in shambles.
The GOP want to continue their distruction of our country
and will therefore prevent anything good from happening
on anybody's watch. Look what they did during Bush...
It is time for Congress to actually read a bill before passing it...if we do not have time to do it right, where will we find the time to fix it when it is wrong.
Kill OBAMACARE now, before our medical freedom is as dead as many of our other freedoms. The gov't has never made anything more efficient (EXCEPT INCREASING TAXES) since the founding of our country, so what makes you think healthcare is any different? Remember, these are the same idiots who said the stimulus bill would keep un-employment from reaching 8%. Now, it is 9.5% and still rising. We need to pray that the Demodummies remain cowardly and refuse to vote it up without having Republidummies to blame it all on when we scream at the price tag for "FREE" healthcare. LIVE FREE OR DIE, AMERICA. NOBAMA 2012.
Willmiller,
Yup. Hired a new trainee last week, single mom.
She'll be getting healthcare, $1,000 deductible, for $80 a month (her portion) in 90 days (covers her child too), 401K in a year, life insurance and disability are her option, 2 weeks paid vacation at the end of the year, 10 paid sick days a year immediately and a free bus pass. We flexed her hours so she can drop off her child at daycare at a reasonable time. Hopefully she'll be able to get the healthcare before the Obamunists ram this healthscare bill down our throats otherwise she is outta luck.
My employer is taking advantage of this down turn to reorganize our admin side and improve efficiency as the existing employees are complaining of being over worked and outdated software systems.
all i can say is, imagine that. this will never come to pass because the people in power dont benefit........they just throw us a bone during campaign season....then act like they are actually working toward it......i honestly dont believe obama is in any hurry to get this done but would like us to think he is. if i ever see national health care, it will be the most shocked i've ever been in government.....
as Dave Mustane said "if there's a new way, i'll be the first in line"
Captain Marvelous - You're right on! Excellent posts! Lots of excellent posts here from many! This is a "We The People" issue for all of we peons. This is not a Republican or a Democrat issue because national healthcare screws all of us bigtime. WE MUST ALL bind together at this time and kill this legislation in it's tracks! It is inconceiveable to me that these Democrat congressional leaders are so hell-bent to have the government take over healthcare and destroy one of the nations largest economic programs. These bastards (and Obama) don't care about any of us (that is plainly obvious), they're not listening to us and this is all about establishing power and big government by socializing the entire nation, destroying capitalism and the American Dream by creating a takeover of the nations major economies in order to force dependency on the federal government. It should be clear to everyone (Dems and Reps) what Obama's promise of "Change" is really all about. If you know the "Boiling Frog Theory" then you understand that all of this "got to do it now" crap that Obama and the Dem leadership are trying to push through is an effort to quickly get into control and worry about the details later after it is too late for us. They're even willing to throw the good Democrat congressmen under the bus (those who actually have morals and care about the people) in their attempt to establish power. That is the only way they can pull off control. Why else would they be pushing all of these laws that have HUGE implications on "We The People" that they are not even reading or doing due diligence on. This is absolutely insane! Quite sure Soros has to have some hand in this mess as this old bastard would like nothing more than to influence America to fall under a one world order. Obviously, the main stream media has been bought out! "We The People" have got to stop this national healthcare legislation and cap and tax (trade). This must be a bi-partisan effort of all of us to stop this stupid legislation because it certainly is going to negatively impact ALL of us if it gets through. It will destroy America as we have known it.
Steelman, let me guess... you either work for an insurance company or a drug company, or you've bought into their lobbyists line of BS. If it weren't for the ever increasing extortionate prices the healthcare industry charges for its services, we wouldn't be going through this now.
As others have said, this is not a Democrat or Republican issue, but one of humanitarian need. I think you'd be whistling a different tune if you, or any member of your family, had to sell your home in order to pay for the costs of a sudden family illness.
If you read the fine print, You will see, this plan will only cover about 10 million, not 45 million. The cost estimate is $1 trillion to $1.5 trillion. When was the last time the government did any thing for the first estimated cost? The war in Iraq was supposed to cost $10 billion. Use those numbers and it becomes apparent this boondoggle just gets better and better. It covers very few of the people they claim need help, but cost everyone else a fortune. Obama and his handlers have already mortgaged our childrens future, please call your senators and congressmen and tell them to shoot this POS down before it cost us all our jobs.
Mindless conservative drivel: "get a job like we good conservatives do..." What a load of crap. You think everyone's as blessed as you are, and it's just as damn easy for everyone as it's obviously been for you. But you're out of touch, more and more all the time, with the reality outside your own narrow mind. That's why you will be more marginalized in American politics the more you speak like that.
"Get a job?" How about getting a clue? Perhaps the day will come when you'll see what it's like to be less fortunate.
Hey I can't find a job right now but no way do I want government to run healthcare. I mean when was the last time they did anything right? I will say that times are hard and jobs are just has hard to find. Hopefully this healthcare thing will be shot down.
Also I'm fat and have health problems but I'm doing what I can to become healther. Also I say its time to remove obama from power before he goes commy on us.
STOP SOCIALIZED GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE. Period. If you folks want government help, get medicare or medicaid, which needs to be abolished too. We have enough governement in our daily lives and you want them to screw up healthcare too.. Get a Clue
This a very important issue and it needs to be done right. Take your time.
#2 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:10 PM EDTWhy hurry with this issue??? They need to take their time and get it right. Something they haven't done in the last six months. MISTAKE AFTER MISTAKE.
WAKE UP WASHINGTON
voting out anyone who has been in office for more than 2 Senatorial terms or 3 congressional terms would be a good wake up call.
Begin again in 2010!
How many of those allegedly without health insurance have cable tv and I-pods?
lol, just vote em out.....how funny. or.......you could actually look into wheather they are representing you or not instead of just blindly doing something so foolish. some of us have great senators that actually stayed up all night reading the patriot act and voting against it even though it made them outcasts and the subject of national ridicule. unless he changes his way, I will continue to vote for Russ Fiengold every time he runs
John #2.1. Couldn't agree more. If this gets "rushed" or "pushed" through like Prez O wants, Joe B. will be back on TV saying they missread the documents, so instead of taxing only the wealthy....well, you understand, we have to tax ALL of you! This will be another "knee-jerk" action. LMAO at the people who think this is such a great idea. Besides, who in the heck is going to get covered first....they already have MISSREAD and said they CANNOT insure everyone at first. So what is it? Cover individuals who are deemed healthy and leave the people who are in desperate need of coverage wait b/c that is where the cost/burden is? Personally, I'd like to see the health insurance companies offer reasonable rates before resorting to his plan. I think insurance companies are willing to be more flexible since all the hype of creating a government plan. I think this is boiling down to a power struggle and kind of a rub in your face attitude between the parties, however, b/c of their ignorance to review the documents with great scrutiny, once its in law, we are stuck with it. And yes, WE THE PEOPLE will bear the brunt of this for years to come!
So what some are saying is- do something now, even if it is wrong, incomplete or unworkable. And remember - a government big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take all you have.
#3 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:12 PM EDTLook at China. Anything a government can make legal it can also make mandatory.
Makes you wanna rethink that assisted suicide thing doesn't it.
"Ah, I wanna make this perfect clear, sick americans owe it to their country to remove themselves from the healthcare system as soon as possible, they need to realize that no one lives forever! Assisted suicide is your patriotic duty! By the way, members of congress and the president are exempt from this healthcare proposal. Long live Ted Kennedy!"
Bastaards.
seriously captain crazy? are you even reading this stuff you're typing. thank god most people can actually think clearly unlike you
You are all going to get exactly what you deserve. No jobs, no pensions, no 401K, no money, and the Government expecting you to pay for everything, and throwing you in prison when you can't. I hope you're all happy with your Change.
All these thieves are going to do is give a windfall profit to the insurance industry. Your big deal "health care reform" is going to be nothing but forcing you to BUY health insurance, punishable by law. How well is that No-Fault auto insurance working for you? Because that's what you're getting for health insurance. And now, like your car repairs, your health and treatment will be authorized or rejected by an insurance adjuster. Sound like a good plan?
#4 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:12 PM EDTThe only way for the system to work is if everybody is forced to have insurance. We can not allow people to just not have insurance until they get sick. That financially does not work unless you think like a Democrat financially. Making car insurance mandatory is a good thing and makes the system work. You need to punish those that are costing others by their poor decisions! Right now the system is not working because those that "choose" to not have insurance are costing the rest of us when they get sick or injured. I have never had a problem with my car insurance other than when I got in an accident and the other loser democrat thug who did not have insurance left me high and dry! Oh that made me so happy..... Some loser that I am paying taxes for to put food on his table and keep alive gets off with a slap on the wrist so he can continue to sell drugs on the black market and not pay taxes and drive around drunk to cause more problems while I am left paying to fix my car!
exactly wrong- the forced insurance is a TAX- I would rather have the choice to pay out of pocket- I would gladly buy a catastrophic/emergency policy- but the insurance companies do not sell them. The insurance companies want to cover healthypeople who don't use the services.
So, let's just keep things as they are. Wow, what a brilliant idea. Let's allow the insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies to run away with profits and not hold them accountable for their greed. Talk about big business and big government, these medical groups have you and the rest of the GOP snowed. Have you ever asked yourself the real question about why ever other commercial on tv is for a prescription medication or why employers can't even offer health insurance to their employees? No, that would be too difficult to think through for most because they regurgitate the same old distraction about the president's birth certificate. No, there's no such thing as not dealing with the problem.
Doctor Steph,
Want an option to buying medical insurance, want to pay out of pocket? Great.
Then you should do just as is required with auto insurance, if you don't want it then you must post a bond.
But you know as well as I do that the moment you come down with polycystic kidney disease you'll not want to pay for it yourself out of pocket, with dialysis running $12,000 per month and medication another $5,000, you'll be wanting your maximum out of pocket option won't you. Oh, and lucky enough to get a transplant, add another $100,000 for the surgery and follow up, still got medication at $3,000/month another $500/month for lab work....yeah, out of pocket is fine if you make $300K a year.
PKD not likely, how about Hep C or maybe any former of malignantcy, how about a slip and fall that leaves you a quadraplegic? Or maybe your doctor misdiagnoses you and misses the staph infection that eats away your mitral valve, happens 12 times a day in the US, of course if you are actually a doctor you would know this.
Corgis is right, but for the wrong reasons. It is the insurance companies that are making money off off sick people, but with these new proposed plans that will not change. In fact, they will be making just as much off of healthy people, if not more. How many car accidents does the average person get in as compared to how much money they spend in insurance. Therefore it is the insurance companies that need to be regulated. We don't need another failed government agency. Social security, medicare/medicaid are going bankrupt with the government overseeing them.
BTW, the state of Massachusetts did a study and found that 20% of their uninsured didn't bother to check, or didn't know how to check, if they qualified for existing public services. Another 40% could afford it but decided not to for one reason or another. That has the potential to cut the spending for this by 60% if they would simply ask the question 'why are people uninsured'. I bet they would find that the results are similar to the results in Massachusetts. So instead of setting up another failed government program, let's try to work within the system we have and fix what we can there first before throwing the whole thing out.
Making everyone jump in will overburden the system. Waiting time will increase, because to meet this 16% increase in visits and other services. People used to never go to the doctor unless they were certain something was wrong. Once insurance became popular, people went much more frequently.
It's not the time to do it. Revive the economy first by paying more attention to small businesses, which will result in re-hirings, and then you can start thinking about such a costly multi-billion dollar reform as this. Increasing taxes will do more harm to the already struggling economy. It's a no-brainer, really. But it seems that Obama is totally blind to this...
#5 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:12 PM EDTSure go ahead and ram it through. Something needs to be done. The worst that can happen is it will be the final straw to bankrupt us and then we will finally have REAL change.
#6 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:14 PM EDTWhat Americans, that are not sure what government health care iis like, I would suggest you visit a country that has implemented it. That's the only way you will see that it DOES NOT WORK.
.
Think how many Canadians will die if the US is converted to their form of healthcare, they'll have no where else to go, the bodies will pile up at the border.
Notice how Obama and all his cronies in the Senate and Congress made sure to exempt themselves along with unions from this plan, see Ted Kennedy's little amendment to the plan regarding this.
Begin again in 2010.
He is trying to move so quickly because he doesn't want congress to actually read the 1,000 plus page bill which will lead us to a social medical system. Would you go to Canada for your healthcare, me either!
#7 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:14 PM EDTAcutually Deedub...
I would, and I have, gone to Canada for EXCELLENT healthcare!! And, I saved THOUSANDS of dollars....have you ever even been to Canada???
Don't write about something you don't know about!
I worked for a Canada based company and they came to the US for there Quality health care. Their tax rate is also outrageous there. We have some of the best health care in the world. Speaking of writing about something you know not enough about.
Last year, a mother gave birth to Identical Quadruplets it Great Falls, Montana. She was from Calgary, Alberta. There were no hospital beds in a city of two million people, so she had to go south of the border to our "inferior" health care system so she could safely give birth. Even after paying exhorbinant taxes for health care, it was unavailable to her. Nothing is perfect. The quality of care is good when you can get it, but people tend to stay in beds longer when they've paid for them in advance.
I have a friend in Canada that has waited for years to get knee replacement surgery. Because of his pain, he's lost his job and house. Government run health care is NEVER a good idea!!
So all you people who are against a health care public option are happy with your heath care insurance costs that just continue to rise because there is no competition and collusion between the insurance companies (not to mention the health insurance lobby which “owns” a great majority of the congress), and before you tell me that this won’t be fixed with a public option consider this, in the over 40 years that medicare has been around, health insurance costs have risen about twice as much as medicare costs when compared to inflation.
HEALTH CARE FINANCE is not the same as HEALTH CARE DELIVERY- the insurance companies have ripped off America- so has medicare- they all take your money and then don't ant to let it go- in Nevada we cal this betting on the come- you give them money thinking you will get more back in goods and services- why would we ever think that a profit driven industry would ever pay or equal or more than what we put in?? The delivery system is the best in the world- there is no dispute. Now it would be nice to have a more uniform effectiveness in our hospital care, and the delivery system needs a new model to fit the American lifestyle, but it is sound
nose4news, since you think the canadian health care system is so great, please report there for all your health care needs. leave the rest of us alone.
Reform to the insurance companies to drive costs down without the public option, that I would support.
Nose4news,
I have been to Canada and seen its healthcare system at work. I went with my neighbor to pick up his mother and bring her to the US for heart surgery, she couldn't imagine waiting the 128 days that she was told it would take for approval.
62 years old and her government said she was not a good candidate because of her life expectancy, mind you she was water skiing and jogging up until she was diagnosed with a bad aortic valve. (which resulted from a staph infection she caught while being mistreated in Ontario for a detached retina (that she didn't have) 3 years earlier).
Canadian healthcare sucks.
Limit damage awards would be good. All there ever has been is talk about this. This is because most of the politicians in congress are Lawyers first, and so is the current president.
Keep in mind, if the government mandates a treatment or no treatment, and you disagree, you cannot sue the government! The Federal Government has to first give you permission to sue it!
Be careful what you ask for, you might get it and force a lot of others to take it in the shorts too!
Why only quote Canadian or Great Britain health care, there are others to emulate. One of the ones on the list is Switzerland, Finland, etc. There are other countries who use public options along with private options and doing them well. I have heard good and ill about Canada but our system is BROKEN. You have the ones like most repubs who claim the emergency rooms are the way to go..have you been? Must be nice to be so rich to tell the poor/working poor be quite and die for you have such great healthcare.
I have healthcare provided by my employer but the cost is so hugh that I have not received a decent pay raise because of the cost of health.
Also the one time spokesperson for CIGNA tells that that group did and does deny care to many by claiming that the care is experimental, age of the patient..so don't claim that the 'socialist' Canadian government denies health care...that happens here too.
I hate when some claim what a great country this is with the best healthcare in the world but don't see the dirty side of this country. It is not the greatest for we have the highest infant mortality in the world..we are not the greatest, the best, better than...we are just USA and struggling to stay afloat and the system has to be fixed no matter what the repubs, lobbyist, corp health/insuarnce says for they don't care about the people just the dollar.
Ms B,
when I hear that people are floating on doors to get to Cuba for its great healthcare I might rethink America being the greatest nation on Earth, until that time, America is where everyone else wants to be because it is the greatest nation on God's green Earth.
Begin again in 2010.
in the over 40 years that medicare has been around, health insurance costs have risen about twice as much as medicare costs when compared to inflation.
Which is probably why Medicare is going broke. To make it go broke just a little quicker the house bill would like to take the "cost savings" newly discovered in the basement of the Medicare building and use it for the new "public option":)
Yes, If I could. My mother got 24/7 care in Canada at no cost to our family. Her medical condition would have bankrupted me, here in America.
CM48- "My mother got 24/7 care in Canada at no cost to our family." Really? No one in your family ever worked or bought anything or paid any taxes in Canada? This is the oft repeated lie that so many have bought into. Somehow these people think health care can be provided for free. I have news for you HEALTH CARE IS NOT FREE. It is not free anywhere. The lack of intellegence this belief in free health care reveals is astounding.
He is trying to move quickly because he doen't actually want Congress to read the bill which will eventually lead us to a social medical sysytem. Would you go to Canada for health care? I know I wouldn't! Yes our system has issues, but this is not the answer. Say good-bye to choice in the one area it is most important, YOUR HEALTH
#8 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:17 PM EDTWhatever He pushes thru results in our losing choice. Heard about the Nanny State? That will be our country if OB has his druthers. This thing was killed once before with Hillary - acting as Bill-Boy's stand-in. Well, Deedub,, there ain't a Santa in this freaking congress. Our country has to fight it with all we have. Hope 2010 is not too late.
jean, 2010 WILL be too late. This stuff will be law by then if we don't stop it now. Again I say, call ALL the Democratic congressmen and tell them not to vote for this bill. You Republicans and Democrats that know this is a dangerous bill, burn their phone lines up starting Monday morning.
Bella, there will be just as many and more people burning up the phone lines in support of the Bill. Me among them. It is very hard to argue with 76% of Americans who support a robust public option. I think in the end people will be very happy with the Bill that is passed.
right, just like the stimulus. The welfare people spent their $600 on drugs and drinking. Those who work for a living got nothing....except more taxes
MaryanneAZ
Let's try this again
76% of Americans would like something done about Health Care This was some time ago. The Current Polling Report from McClatchey is 52% think we shoud have national Healthcare insurance - only 46% said the priority should be to extend insurance.
Rassmussen (considered more accurate) 61% of Americans see Health care as the primary issue of concern today. 50% of Americans Oppose a Government Health Insurance Company ONLY 35% are for this action.
Support for A National Healthcare Insurance company is dropping fast. This is why the rush to pass something With government, rushing to do something other than Foreign attack, Financial Collapse, or natural disasters is a HUGE MISTAKE. The rush means more control to politicians, more money to be doled out to those who support them. WAKE UP AMERICA!
We do need changes to this system, the healthcare/insurance/lobbyist have denied us all the chance to not lose our homes do to some big health problems. Also if you lose your job and able to obtain another, you might/will be denied health care if you are diabetic, hypertension, cancer survivor; etc.
But the ones complaining about cost, I don't hear you screaming about the 10M per month in Iraq and what is the cost in Afgah? what...silence on those fronts.
For the repubs, if not now when? Never, right! What about an option to take away health care from all ...ALL POLITIANS! All state workers don't deserve health care. Just give to military (no officers - most never have life on the line) police and fire fighters.
Everyone else should go to the emergency room for care.
Ms. B,
wow, did you miss taking your medication? You're getting very close to raving.
If you want to see healthcare costs come down cap the trial lawyers lawsuit lottery. Physcians are spending $200K a year on malpractice insurance because lawyers like Jon (that's not my baby) Edwards are suing them out of business. Somehow Obama's bill forgot to address that little issue, wonder why?
Does it need to be done in Aug09 - probably not - but Congress has been talking about this forever - If it passes this year though, maybe by the end of 2011 we will actually start see the benefits.
These Congressmen and women whine about not being able to read 1000 pages. That 's what they have a staff for, paid by our tax$$$$. That just sounds good as a sound bite on TV. I'm talking about both Dems and Repubs - they are lazy and they need to earn their pay and their pension and their health care - so I have no sympathy for the lot of them.
Go get them Mr. President!
#10 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:19 PM EDTSue #9,
I suspect that most people who voted for their member in Congress expect them to read every word in every piece of proposed legislation and question anything that they don't understand till they do understand, before they vote on it. After all, the constituents are the ones paying for it.
How did that stimulus thing work out that was rushed through to keep us at 8% unemployment? No, take the time and read the bill yourself or don't vote for it!
Wow, I read a 500 page novel in about 3 days when I am not busy running my business and taking care of a 5 year old. You would think that the staff could divy up a 100 pages a piece and finish it in a day...
It is absurd to believe that the Congress has not read or had digested by staffers this important legislation. The proof is that they all say that components of the Plan blah, blah, blah... How can they know what is in the Plan, if they have allegedly not had time to read it? They are lying to us. I can read a 1,000 page document in a day. Many people are capable of reading that much material in a day. They would have a lot more time to read legislation if they curtailed their onair TV time!
MaryanneAZ - well said.
See benefits? If this thing passes I loose my individual health insurance plan on January 1, 2010. That means I go directly to the Government Plan Page 16 of the proposed plan. I like my plan, It's really higher cost than I would like, but I can study treatments and get the right treatment, with the government plan, they tell the doctors what treatments you should receive at what time. From personal experience, I know better than trustring the government! Now I will be forced to do it their way!
note about lazy government officials.... they won't be on the same health care HHHMMMMM!!! wonder why???
SLOW DOWN??? Yes Yes Yes and YES AGAIN! The White House is dreaming if they think Government Health Care can fix anything. I don't like the cost of Health care now and I will most certainly despise the Government Health care which will cost a whole lot more. With the government Health Care monopoly imposed, I will then be paying for my health care and a whole lot of other folks who don't want to give up their wide screen TV to pay for health care now. The folks who are crying they can't afford health care now are simply lying. They just need to reset their priorities. I will not pay for their free ride.
#11 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:21 PM EDTIt's funny you should say that. A few years ago I got a tour of government subsidised housing and ran into a 60 inch plasma screen. In their defense, even with subsidies, they were still paying $1000 rent for a small, two bedroom home and raising four kids. Their house was spotless as well. They were hard working immigrants.
RIGHT ON RON- much of it is priorities- but also not having the right insurance options- make everyone buy a catastrophic/emergency plan- cool- but don't make me buy a plan that won't work for me- that is theft!!!
You should get your facts correct before you post and make a fool of yourself . . .
. . . I guess you are happy with your heath care insurance costs that just continue to rise because there is no competition and collusion between the insurance companies . . .
. . . and the fact is that in the over 40 years that medicare has been around, health insurance costs have risen about twice as much as medicare costs when compared to inflation.
doctorsteph,
I agree with you. We are self employed and buy our own insurance. It is expensive and we went 17 years without personal insurance, got older and the risk out weighed the cost, so we bought the only coverage we could find that was not as (I would say too expensive but it is all expensive)expensive. We would have loved an option of a catastrophic/emergency policy. This is the real kind of health care fix we need. I am just mesmerized by the folks who seem to think that this is some how going to be free care or that it won't cost what they pay now, but as someone above wrote, when companies know that the government or an insurance company is going to pay for something, the price quadruples. That is a fact! So having the government provide our every need is not the answer and our losing our freedoms is certainly not the answer.
Ron- I am 53 and have been disabled for three years due to a disease that affects my spinal cord in my lower back. I worked for 35 years, raised my kids and am still paying college loans. I have Medicare with all the A's, B's, D's, etc. The only free part of Medicare is part A which covers hospital expenses.
I collect Social Security monthly. My medical expenses for 2008 were $12,000, my Social Security income was about $22,000. I have a mortgage (on a property that I COULD afford when I was working) college loans for the kids, my car is old and paid off, not that I drive much anyway. I don't watch TV. I have cut back dramatically in expenses and still don't have a couple of bucks to save.
I skip doses and split pills trying to stretch prescriptions. If Medicare were allowed to negotiate with big Pharma, I imagine that more then half of my expenses would go away. If the Medicare supplemental plans were less expensive, then I would also save some money.
My goal was to educate my two kids, and we have one more year and then we're done. Oh, and about 20 more years to pay.
We need affordable health care coverage for people like me that fall into the gap between Medicaid and private insurance. Having a government option will mean that people will stay on top of their healthcare instead of holding off tests, etc.
Please don't think that all of the receipients of this plan are low-life LAZY and fat. I hope that we have a plan soon, but am willing to wait for the confidence of the majority. If that takes us into the fall, so be it.
UnitedWeStand - thanks for sharing your story. Coming up with a logical solution and instead of being anger and saying the gov't is trying to control your life, you bet those people will take the help from the gov't when they need it. And rightfully so if you pay into the system, you deserve the help.
My employer has a medical insurance that you are authomatically enrolled in if you don't take any other option they offer. It has a $5,000 deductible but if you get in a car accident if you are a responsible person it's much better than the taxpayers footing the bill for your say $100,000 bill. On Cobra it cost $100.00 a month, one of my coworkers took it when they moved out of state. I would think that would be a good option - like DoctorSteph says catastropic/emergency insurance from the government or private insurance company. If I did my math right - for the 45,000,000 people without insurance at $100.00 a month is $4,500,000,000 or $4.5 billion in one month.
Don't you think that the major of the population of the USA can afford $100.00 a month?
United WE Stand, You need to contact your Doctors office and get them to file the paperwork for you to get your medications free, directly from the pharmaceutical companies. They help people in your predicament. And don't let them tell you there's no such thing. My sister is a nurse and she spends 2 hours a day filing these for people. Most of the desk help tell the patients there is no such thing because they are too lazy to do the paperwork.
Sue - $100 per month is unrealistic. I had emergency only insurance in the 80's as an individual for 50 or 60 per month. My sister did that a few years back it was more like $150 or $200 per month. I know someone on an emergency only insurance plan for here family. That was $450 per month.
Insurance is about figuring out costs, having enough money to fund current costs submitted by medical claims, cover "runs" on claims, pay salaries, and put back for enough to fund what they say your maximum benefit is and cover for them being wrong. Many negotiate drug deals for you, and insure that you have not been billed by someone who didn't treat you. That $450/ month plan insurance company mentioned above went bankrupt last fall with little warning.
For United We Stand, there are places and people that can help. If the current people you are using don't have try another doctor.
I have a neighbor who is a single parent with perhaps $30,000 in income had both her kids in private school. She knew the right people, who put her in touch with all the right people and places. Her kids went for nearly free, I can't get more than 20% off on my 2 kids education. Makes me wish I was a liberal.
DB Akron-It's sounds like as an individual finding there own insurance? what if it was buying power of 45Million people or even 10Million people. The COBRA is full premium for the employer I work for which employees about 35,000 people. What kind of buying power would 10Million people have?
I say crank it up, don't slow it down. 70 years of healthcare reform failure has been slow enough. Time to get things done now!
#12 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:22 PM EDTSO you are saying who cares what the overwhelming majority wants"
That's what he's saying. He must be Obama's brother
The overwhelming majority (76%) want a public health care option now. And, yes, 70 years is entirely too long to wait. In Arizona, only 55% of employers offer health insurance at all. Twenty percent of us are uninsured, and of those 73% live in a household with a full-time employee. My employer started out offering a fully paid choice of several insurers and is down to one insurer with employees now paying 20% of the premium. Next year is anticipated to go up in both premium and portion paid by the employee. This is not going to get better on its own. We cannot sacrifice the good in an impossible pursuit of the perfect Bill. The beauty of any legislation is that it can be amended or repealed if it is not working.
Maryanne, I'm sure your statistics are WRONG!! Just take a look at this discussion board. The overwhelming majority want nothing to do with this. Those are probably figures from Obama's camp.
Bella, my statistics are correct. Go to whitehouse.gov and view the state by state study. Also my State poses similar statistics on various websites. This discussion board is counting the people who enter the board which is not a true polling sample. If 75% of those who come on a board are GOP, then the vote will show that. However, national polls with legitimate polling samples indicate that 76% of Americans want a robust public health care option. These boards attract the minority who are more angry and likely to vent and bash the President. Happy people spend their time in more worthwhile ways. I am disabled and have a lot of time now to spend on boards trying to offer the opposite perspective. Otherwise, all of you would simply be preaching to the choir. If you want a different President in 2012, then run a viable candidate with a message and an agenda.
I havn't been to a dr for 10 years and am healthier since finding alternative medicines and do not think I should be forced to pay for something I wouldn't use so some illigal can get it. And yes $100 a month is too much for me to pay!
Stop the insanity of push it through now and figure out where the benefit is or how to pay for it later. We've thrown a few stabs at healtcare, but the real problem with healthcare now is the GOVERNMENT has regulated it to the point where insurers can not be competitive. Health Insurance should be like car insurance or property insurance where you can choose the level and type of insurance you want. We really only need "catastrophic insurance" but you can't purchase that. The government requires companies to insure for phsycotherapy, erectile dysfunction, sex changes, penile implants, drug addiction, marriage counseling, etc and it drives up the cost.
When you purchase auto insurance you are covered when something big and critical happens. And as an owner you make sure to get the oil changed, tires rotated, wiper blades changed, brake pads and tune ups....or you purchase a special maintenance policy as an add-on. If you could do that with health insurance, catastrophic health insurance would be affordale to everyone.
Because of government regulation, people now expect too much. A smart Democrat was arguing on the radio yesterday that a single mother making $50,000 a year with 3 kids should have to the right to have healthcare plan for her kids so she could afford to take them for annual checkups and that unless we did something, a person like this could not afford healthcare. What a stupid and rediculous arguement coming from such a smart person.
At most, it would cost this woman $100 per child for an annual checkup. That's only $300 per year without insurance. Here's the catch - even if this woman had insurance it will cost here at least $300 per month for a family of 4 if here employers picks up 50% of the cost. And if there is anything more than an annual checkup, insurance will only cover 60% to 80% of it until her $1000 to $5000 annual deductible has been satisfied. DUH!!!
Do the math. It only pays to have insurance when you have a major medical problem. For the rest of what we receive for relatively healthy people, it's much cheaper to just pay the going rate.... especially for children.
We need the government to allow insurers to offer a Major Medical policy that is for only castostrophic events and major illness without all the other crap so they can provide it for a very competitive rate. We should all then be responsible for taking care of our own maintenance.
I agree this a very important issue.We must take more time.Try to get the GOP on the train. I would continue to investigate and wait until at least the 2010 elections are over.
#13 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:24 PM EDTIf they push through the Dems will lose every thing in 2010-except Obama
Michele, you are entirely wrong in that assessment. The likelihood is that the Dems will gain in 2010 as people (76% of whom want a public option) see the possibility of further improving their lives through other legislation. An even greater majority of Dems in the House and Senate would ensure that the Dems can successfully accomplish America's business. Elections have consequences. America elected Obama and Dem majorities in order to achieve the agenda laid out during the campaigns. In the event that the health care bill does not get pushed through, I see the Dems increasing in 2010 as well. A larger majority will ensure that the bill gets through following the mid-term elections.
Maryanne, by 2010 the Democrats that voted for the idiot will realize they made a mistake. He's killing us with all the new tax burdens he's put on us in these last 6 months. I've seen many people on these boards that voted for him, and now say they wish they wouldn't have.
Bella, you are again wrong. First, that's President Obama, and he should be respected by ALL Americans as such. There have been no new taxes on anyone earning less than $250,000 a year. Few of us on these boards make that kind of dough. You have no way to know whether anyone who claims to have voted for President Obama actually did so. People make that claim in order to create an impression of an errosion in confidence. That too is untrue. President Obama still enjoys a very high approval rating especially in light of our current circumstances. If you do not like this President, then run your candidate in 2012 and defeat him. Until then, at a minimum, please be respectful. BTW, it is "the Democrats WHO voted..." not that voted.
Right, like the 76.2% who don't like his health care plan. Thats a nice approval
Maryann seems to think Newsvine is mostly a right wing site and the poll is skewed.
From a moral stand point, the health care bill needs to be done now! From an economic stand point, until we offer pubic healthcare, we cannot reasonably compete against countries that do. Politically, we have never been closer. Yes, as it was with Medicare and Social Security, there are a details that need to be addressd, but we should put a structure in place and fix it over time. Finally, I don't care at all about bipartisan support of anything!
#14 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:25 PM EDTuntil the cancer of the liberal left invaded our courts and education system throwing god and prayer out (which we've replaced with metal detectors, thanks) we had no competition on the planet. now look how weak we are. and socialized medicine and bankruptcy, along with the slide of the middle class into dependance on the government, is going to help us compete?
sorry, i don't buy it.
Don't care about bipartisan support? That kind of thinking is exactly what we are afraid of, especially if it is the same political party that sued Microsoft for making money. But in your defense, one party rule worked great in Russia for about 70 years.
Medicare, social security and medicaid are all bankrupt- they are forcing this through to access a new revenue stream before the country realizes the system is bankrupt!! The money will never be spent on health care- they will begin denying care to people, insisting they die on a schedule...
Bonami - you have to be kidding me? Where did you get your history? We can't compete because we don't have public healthcare?? We're the wealthiest, most productive country in the world - where can't we compete? The private sector is what has made us great. Government has put us in our current situation with a massive debt of entitlements that are coming due and no way to pay for them as they emebezzled the funds. The government is Bernie Madoff and you say to save ourselves we have to invest more money with them? Again, you have to be kidding me! You just want a free lunch!
We lost our way when NAFTA was passed....did not everyone here the whoosing sound of jobs leaving America so they CEO's could pay children 75 cents a day instead of paying the American worker. We have no economy because we have no industry left.....the idiots have gotten what they wanted and now they are @!$%#ing about it...go figure.....stupid is as stupid does. Now they want government run health care.....when was the last time the government did anything right?????? Never.....or next to never....
NO GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE....NO NO NONONONOONOOOOO...
They all should go. Including Mr. PRESIDENT...
#15 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:25 PM EDTJohn. Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone that voted for Obama is getting exactly what they voted for and what they deserve. The only problem is, the rest of us have to get what we did not vote for! Anyone that wants a politician deciding wether they live or die instead of a doctor should be pleased with themselves. IF THIS IS SO GOOD FOR US, WHY ISN'T IT GOOD FOR OBAMA AND THE GOVERNMENT WORKERS . . . GEE I WONDER. Maybe because they want healthcare and since most of them are all so old it would be a death sentence for them if they signed up for what is supposedly good for us!
#16 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:25 PM EDThey ....warren .....some of us ate alot of crap under your so called hero george bush . the country was put in this place by an incompetent fool. maybe if we kept th ONE trillion dollars we spent in iraq we could afford insurance for americans.
so why dont you get off your medicare ...you hypocrite .
this president is going to ram thru ..the one thing all americans want .....health coverage for every american . so sit there quietly since you leach off the system that you complain about.
Good thing we have troops in Iraq since we will be in Iran soon. Gee will we finally see that W had it going on?????
You are not too smart to give an answer like you did to warren. It was not George Bush that ruined our country but the DEMOCRATES like all the ones in power now. Have you forgotten old Barney and his gang. What is wrong with democrates not being able to see where to put the blame. Leave Bush alone he did his job and kept us safe THANK GOD. Remember that name GOD. with the democrates we have all gone to hell. Where but in America can a man be voted president without giving up any information about himself and putting us into so much debt and still wanting to push more debt on us. And only in America can a man be blindly voted into office because the black people have one mind to get him in only because he is black. The college kids are a joke they wanted change. Change from what?? Mommy and daddy pay for their college, drugs, beer, parties, cars, insurance. They only need to get high and go through school. What kind of change are they talking about??? What a wasted group of people that voted these unfit people in and are now ruining our country. They should be put in jail for ruining everyones lives with just the banking alone in this country. They stole all that money and they are still in office blaming Bush. Bush did not run the banking THEY DID and they are still out there looking for more. Bush had alot of issues, who doesn't, but Obama is the pits and he will ruin our country. I hope when it comes time to vote again democrates will finally come to their senses and vote responsibily, and if they can't see republican is the way to go I pray they find a man or woman with a decient brain looking out for America and not wanting to change our way of life since we became this great nation.
Warren - Good point. I'd like to see Obama and the House explain exactly why they won't be utilizing the health care plan that is supposedly going to help so many of us.
Wolverine - I think you (like a lot of anti-war supporters) really don't understand what the point of being in Iraq was really for. We were attempting to support their ability to find "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," as many Americans currently enjoy while completey misunderstanding and misinterpreting all of it's foundations.
Obama "ramming thru" a forced health plan is NOT liberty....
Warrren, I AGREE!! Perhaps if our politicians had to live under the "social plans" that they vote in for the rest of us they would give more consideration to the bills they pass. They probably have the best retirement and medical plan that money can buy courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer.
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."--Thomas Jefferson
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."--George Washington
Most on this post the statement above will go over their heads..For the ones who understand and comprehen...god bless America because we still have a chance.
In this Country, the majority vote wins the election. President Obama won by a large majority and we gained Dems in the House and Senate. Americans wanted something different after the Bush43 debacle, and they chose the agenda of President Obama. Elections have consequences. It is so disheartening to see the level of hatred and vitriol by the minority. The sense of entitlement they seem to have to make gross assumptions about other people sickens me. If the minority wants a different President in 2012, then run a credible candidate with a real message and agenda, but do not use the time in between elections to bash the current President. The majority of us voted for him and support his agenda. It is difficult to argue with 76% of the Nation who wants a public health care option now. If it gets rammed through on reconciliation, then it will be term expired. That is the downside to a simple majority vote. Think Bush tax cuts which were rammed through despite Dem opposition, which expire next year.
Amazing, We don't have a chance unless we ACT on those words of George Washington. Just saying them will do nothing. I'm waiting for someone to start a militia so I can join.
Bella, hon, you need some serious medication or something. I'm not being snarky. You do realize that people who threaten to overthrow the government by raising up arms against those who govern are considered treasonists? You can be arrested and tried for that. There are plenty of militia groups out there if you are serious. They largely hide in remote compounds, gather weapons and run websites for like-minded people to join them. The only legitimate means to change the face of government is by elections. I'll say it again, run your candidate in 2012 and get him or her voted in. I don't like your odds, but you are free to go for it.
You are so right. I am sure you are a hard working american. Interesting how they don't want to have the same healthcare and yet, I have yet to see anyone explain this away. And in case no one has noticed Obama has got wars going as well and again 76.2% don't want this. Get a clue!
Mayanne -
The 76% want something done with health care. 50% think the government shouldn't handle health care insurance. 46% think the Government should institute Government Health insurance.
60% of Americans are happy with their health care, but the Government plan will intrude in a number of ways. Obama himself said that they counsel doctors how treat people considered terminal with possible life saving or life extending treatments to prescribe painkillers instead to make them feel comfortable - as they die. duhhhhh! this is what conservatives have been trying to warn people since Hillary and Obama kicked off their campaigns over 2 years ago!
There is actually mandates for linquistic training, even end of life counselling, health care providers reporting any dealings with medical suppliers - These are things that private health companies would never do because the federal government would never make that legal for them.
I watch these numbers almost daily, from the most accurate polster who's numbers were closest to the results in the last election.
in god we trust 1220448,
What the hell are you talking about . . . get your facts correct before you post and make a fool of yourself . . .
reagan-bush1 more than tripled the National debt from under 800 billion dollars to about 3 trillion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
. . . Now onto bush2 - the National debt was still around 3 trillion dollars when Bush2 was selected as president, when he left, the National Debt was over 10 trillion dollars, another more than 3 fold increase, so don't talk to me about big spending presidents unless you're going to include the last three republican presidents . . . and the republicans had complete control from 2002 to 2006 during which time the debt increased by about as much as it had in the previous 200 years, so don't tell me it was a Democratic Congress that increased the debt !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
. . . and finally, the current deficit is about 10% President Obama and about 90% leftover from guess who . . . bush2
. . . look it up, ditto head !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
. . . and just in case you have forgotten; last fall bush and the boys gave 700 billion dollars to wall street with no strings attached . . . at least there were some rules with President Obama's stimulus package . . . not to mention the 4300+ young Americans who lost their lives unnecessarily in george w bush's war of choice !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How many people do you know that have been denied care when they have gone to the emergency room?
One things for sure, with the government envolved it will surly be an Obmanation.
#18 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:27 PM EDTthis president was elected, and he's never managed so much as a community center, and now look at this mess with knee jerk and pork laden legislation that "must be passed now"
you could never sell this as fiction.
#19 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:28 PM EDTgeorge bush put every single thing he touched into bankruptcy .....your point .
i think your name says it all .....oldmule... your dated and so yesterday.
The difference between George Bush's spending and Obama's spending is the skin color of the one doing the spending.
wolverine- you are wrong.. just wrong good one Russ!!! But also, Obama spent more in 6 months than the PREVIOUS 43 pres COMBINED!!!
He and his people-Chicago buddies- say they have goals. Good! Problem is that they do not know how to implement them. Our unemployment is at 10% plus and going up. Get the greedy drug companies to charge less and government should open Free Clinics and pay for that instead of taking every dollar that we have earned and wasting it as they have been doing.
I have seen nothing in the current proposals which will address the root problems facing health care in America. The first of which is simply it is way too expensive, and using insurance companies to disburse the money is incredibly inefficient. Consider that out of every dollar you spend on health care, two thirds go to insurance company payrolls and profit.
I would like to see an expansion of the community clinics designed to serve the poor and uninsured rather than hundreds of billions funneled into the current system.
#20 - Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:30 PM EDTFrench-styled socialized medicine cold easily be achieved in this country if we were not already paying three times the amount per capita as France. I actually do support the idea of a non-profit government-aided insurance company. Next we should get rid of malpractice insurance altogether. Litigation costs a fortune and doesn't ever remove bad doctors from practice. Lower the cost by taking the greed out, especially those who make tons of money leeching off the system.
Free clinics for the poor. Instead of paying taxes, Doctors and nurses could work there for a certain amount of time each year. Zero taxes spent, Lower taxes overall, free medicine. I don't know any Republicans who wouldn't support that.
Yes, this is also an excellent option. Thank you.
I say no to health care reform until the House and Senate are forced to become part of the people. If they had to live within the same system as the rest of us you would see a big change in the way they vote.
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This needs to be well thought out. Whenever Obama wants to do something it is "Vote Now - Think Later"